Transmission probably refers to the aggressiveness and response of the IMT rev matching. And Expert mode isn’t fully off. The VSC will still activate on oh shit moments like if you were going to spin.

I do feel the difference in steering in sport mode. But only at speed and while cornering. Makes the steering wheel feel ‘loaded’ mid corner if that makes sense. At low speeds, I don’t feel any difference.

 

I do feel the difference in steering in sport mode. But only at speed and while cornering. Makes the steering wheel feel ‘loaded’ mid corner if that makes sense. At low speeds, I don’t feel any difference.

Thank you. Excellent description! I don’t have a grc yet and I’ve been wondering about that for a while now. This is such a better explanation than anything I’ve heard so far

 

If you see expert on the dash then there are still some Nannie’s on.

 

Yep they made this really confusing.

EXPERT = TRAC and VSC "Off" however emergency steering assist and braking is still active

TRAC OFF + VSC OFF = True no-nannies state.

I would be really interested to see someone push it heavily in both states and see what the nannies in "EXPERT" mode actually do. Like, are they only there for emergency braking and collision avoidance? Or will they cut in at the first sign of oversteer?

 

I believe all safety systems can be disabled if you put the car in “dyno” mode.

 

i notice a change in steering feel in sport mode. whats the point of adjusting the rev limiter? it was set at 6.5k, but i changed it to 7k.

 

The rev limit indicator sets when the yellow flashing dash starts. I set mine to 6000 RPM so that when I go on track, I will downshift when the dash is not flashing. This is so I don't risk money shifting in braking zones. This also means that from 6000 to 7000 RPM, the dash will flash yellow and then turn red when it hits redline. I use shift lights more on track because I rarely even glance at the dash. I just need to know when to shift up and down. I do wish the GRC came with proper LED shift lights though.

 

Sport makes the steering wheel heavier. At parking lot speeds there's no difference.

I know when you drop to eco mode there is less boost for a similar part throttle input. Maybe there's a similar thing from normal to sport.

 

Likely the text in the OM was just lifted out of another book as in an auto transmission vehicle it will change the shift pattern and timing, along with throttle map. In this car you can just disregard the "transmission" part of the text. I've driven mine with iMT on in all modes and have not noticed any different behavior in regards to rev matching.

Along with sport mode changing the throttle map to a direct torque% map it also stiffens the steering, adding quite a bit of weight to it. I much prefer the sport mode steering to standard and have my custom mode setup so that engine and AC are normal and steering is sport.

 

EXPERT just means it makes you feel like an expert is handling the car for you if you mess up too much.

hold traction control button for 3 seconds to turn that off

make sure you're in sport mode

 

i keep hearing that, but can anyone cite a source to verify this? Not trying to call anyone out, just is a lot of speculation going around without a source to verify this is true. I did notice in expert mode it felt like i was still getting throttle cut at large steering angles with lots of throttle application coming out of tight features in last weekends autoX.

 

i agree about the expert mode, i guess the thing i dont like is i want specifics on what each mode is doing so i can understand the situations to expect it to intervene and how. I have done enough lapping days and amature racing that i havent found a car yet that the nannies make me faster, especially since they tend to cut in unexpectedly so i cant rely on the car to do what physics would allow it and what i am anticipating. So i find myself turning them off asap. If i could know what specifically each mode is done, not just some vagurey about throttle and braking augmentation, then maybe i would be happier with them.

 

the modes are not designed to make you faster - they are designed to keep you safer in most scenarios.

 

The only difference I understand between the modes is the responsiveness of the throttle, steering and so on.
Expert mode, the car will not try to intervene in your driving style. To test this, I went around the same corner at the same unsafe speed with and without the expert mode on. Expert mode off, the car slide around the corner and the computer controlled it to ensure I did not wreck. With it off, I spun out and did a 180. There is a difference with and without expert mode on.

 

I assume you had a spelling error as you said "OFF" in both of your examples

 

DOH!!! Yes off and on. LOL

 

It's a fair point to want to know what it's doing, but without a Toyota engineer expunging details in some nerdy interview we'll probably never know the finite details. I suspect it may have more to do with Japanese manufacturers having some competitiveness when it comes to safety features in the market for mass produced cars. They each have their own secret sauce. It could also be true that they're not actively trying to hide such info, but instead that they don't feel it's necessary to get that granular because it would confuse most owners. Some of us are an exception to that and want to know, but we are in the minority of a minority.

Like spy mentioned, some experimentation is probably our best tool to pool a knowledge base. Next time you're out, (if you haven't yet) try everything off and see what specific behaviors you CAN make it do, and then try the same things again with Expert Mode on and see where and how it intervenes. It seems pretty clear that Expert Mode allows for some playfulness, but still restricts particular vehicle behavior, like to prevent a spin or a snap oversteer situation. In that view, it can be considered performance enhancing, much like ABS, in the sense that it allows you to finish a lap successfully if you're a little too hamfisted; keeping the car under control in those knife edge situations where the alternative puts you into the grass, or worse.

 

Totally agree. I didn't think they are hiding any secret sauce, its likely the latter, they don't expect that owners will care. It just surprises with the then CEO Toyoda being pretty hardcore and driving the GR effort not going the extra ten percent to simply state that sport mode impacts x y z and expert keeps x on etc.
When I'm at autocross I just put it in sport, track diff, expert mode and hold down TCS until expert light goes off keeping the rest of aides off (presumably). Issue is even at autox there aren't enough runs to sacrifice to mess around with the MANY variables with each setting. Aaand lapping days aren't the best venue to try and spin the car etc I don't have a good empty space to try that stuff in any productive manner. So for now it's turn everything off, and hope others have the tools/resources to dig into it. I'm hoping this winter I can find some snow and expedite that learning curve.

 

Yes, all the modes are designed to provide safety to the driver as well as passengers.

They also have given these modes to save money on fuel which includes ECO mode, but if you drive in less traction conditions, you have "Mud $ Sand" mode, Rock and Dirt mode, and Snow mode. That helps you to get traction.

 

yeah i have heard the same and experienced expert mode interfering in my autocrossing too.

 

All I know is that expert mode kept me from having the amount of fun in the snow that I was looking for... Hold down that traction button though and in sport, the car was a riot.

 

According to the Factory manual when you put the car in sport and activate expert mode you are defeating traction control and stability i.e. all nannie’s. That’s only in Sport mode though!

So if you do not activate sport while in expert you will experience interference. This is per the factory manual and we just checked it out yesterday. I have run the Crest in Expert Sport mode and not found any interference.

 

According to the Factory manual when you put the car in sport and activate expert mode you are defeating traction control and stability i.e. all nannie’s. That’s only in Sport mode though!

So if you do not activate sport while in expert you will experience interference. This is per the factory manual and we just checked it out yesterday. I have run the Crest in Expert Sport mode and not found any interference.

Factory manual is different than the owners manual yeah?
What is the Crest? A track?
Many reports, including my personal experience says otherwise, that on more extreme circumstances, nannies do kick in. This also seems to be the case based on what Toyota has told auto journalist when lending them cars for review.
Sequence is:
Sport mode, press TCS button for expert mode,then press and hold TCS until the expert light goes off but all other lights stay on in dash saying TCS and stability are off. This is apparently what actually turns it all off, but there doesn't seem to be any CLEAR literature stating this.

 

Ok, I'm well aware of Angeles Crest, I'm just not a local so i dont refer to it so informally since there are also local roads with similar names in my area

Im not certain if it does anything in other modes, but after holding the TCS button down, it seems it does disable all the nannies in other modes. I only play with it in Sport and there it appears to do something different beyond Expert mode.

You can see below Matt holding the button to turn everything off. A screen grab in their initial video a year or so ago shows this. The below video innacurately shows expert mode still on, which is misleading. They didnt time the video to his voice, so it seems it cut away before the Expert light went off from holding the TCS button.

Youtube- TCS and stab Off from Matt


notice its in sport mode and all the nannies are off, but the expert light is not on, holding the TCS button will do this.

 

Ahh yeah you're right, Crest is in uh, Mexico... Nobody would ever drive like that on US roads...

So the manual makes it appear like Expert mode fully disables VSC, which is indicated with the "EXPERT" indicator.

However when I hold VSC in Normal mode, these same three icons (TRAC, VSC, and PCS) icons are illuminated as being disabled.

Now that I think about it, I believe the difference is a button "press" vs "hold for 4 seconds". I think the "press" accomplishes what the manual states, but the "hold" turns off the three things regardless of what mode you're in.

 

Ahh yeah you're right, Crest is in uh, Mexico... Nobody would ever drive like that on US roads...

So the manual makes it appear like Expert mode fully disables VSC, which is indicated with the "EXPERT" indicator.

However when I hold VSC in Normal mode, these same three icons (TRAC, VSC, and PCS) icons are illuminated as being disabled.

Now that I think about it, I believe the difference is a button "press" vs "hold for 4 seconds". I think the "press" accomplishes what the manual states, but the "hold" turns off the three things regardless of what mode you're in.

Ya like I said it can be Obtuse😂 I am gonna have to explore what you are stating and experiencing. Leave it to the manual to possibly leave something out. It’s like the Secret menu at In and Out🤣

 

This reminds me of the "pedal dance" in the 1st gen 86. Holding VSC down for 4 seconds is supposed to similarly disable everything. However, there were still rare circumstances that triggered stability control at times when it caused more problems. Like, VERY specific situations on track- such as rounding a turn over a crested apex at a specific angle, speed, and rotation, all while trail braking... Although extremely rare, it was still proven to be repeatable and confirmed by multiple owners. The only way to TRULY defeat it, is to fully warm the car up, and restart it while it's warm. A series of inputs using the handbrake and brake pedal must then be completed within 30 seconds. If successful, the corresponding dash icons light up and the ONLY safety system actually active would be ABS (which could be separately defeated by pulling a fuse, but most owners chose to keep that one alive).

I don't have reason yet to believe the GRC systems need such an obtuse procedure unless you're forcing the car into FWD dyno mode (I think), so hopefully the data logs will shed some light.

 

I just sold my 1st gen BRZ for this GRC. I remember reading about the "pedal dance" and was like nope, not doing that every AX run if I shut it off to cool down... I held down one of the buttons, turned off most of it, good enough. Not that great of a driver to worry about it anyway lol. Now my 1st AX is this weekend & need to decide what buttons/modes I'll be using.

 

yep didnt think you did imply that, all good. I like that label, beyond expert, lol. Im going to use that cheers!