Civic Type R Ownership | A Trip to Crazy Town [Ownership Series Ep. 1] savagegeese
black86
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All these cars will be purchased by an absolute minority of people. This is why production is so limited. I believe FL5 production is even lower than FK8, but they don’t even publish numbers to get mad at.
The GRC is lacking the practicality a lot of other hatches offer. The trunk is a joke compared to a GTI/Golf R or the much larger CTR/EN/WRX sedans. Lack of any towing capacity also doesn’t help. It’s maybe why there are so many port installed roof racks.
I buy and hold my cars, am very value oriented, and thought I would never buy a new car.
My last car was a 2017 GTI I bought new 6k under MSRP(otherwise I would have gone used) and drove for 120k miles. I moved cross country with this several times and it was amazing to have 50+ cubic feet of trunk space and a 3500lb towing capacity. It also ran on 87 octane. (I’m sorry.)
I was one of the few people who was offered and able to drive a FL5 several times before I took delivery of a GRC. They were both pretty affordable to me, and I purchased in cash so interest rates didn’t bother me.
I was honestly a bit disappointed when I took delivery of the GRC initially, but it has beyond grown on me. I don’t think I could ever go back to FWD in a daily again, I fucking hate wheel hop.
I think both the CTR and GRC could be amazing cars to own for 100k-200k+ miles. CTR and ITS could be more appealing in more temperate climates, but a red fabric interior probably wouldn’t hold up to my expectations of a long-term daily. Lack of a middle seat in the rear would make me uncomfortable putting a car seat in the back. From this standpoint, the getting a larger car with only front wheel drive in a state with a lot of winter makes no sense to me. But yeah, it drove really well on good pavement. I wonder if the bolt upgrades on the ‘24 improved steering, probably the biggest deficit compared to the FL5 in my limited time with them.
The GRC is really is being held to a standard that is unfair. People are expecting a 37k mini manual GT-R in 2023. I appreciate Toyota for trying, to me it’s far more admirable.
The amount of hate Toyota got on release of this is baffling. They took a major risk for enthusiasts, and produced far more than the CTR. Honda has one of the best consumer AWD systems and they gave us the joke that is the TLX.
This car makes a lot of sense as a hard use daily for someone that really appreciates the athleticism and the versatility of AWD.
I have Honda’s SH-AWD on my got d f’in truck! It’s mostly set up like a GKN Twinster AWD system (Land Rover Evoque, Ford Focus RS) in that the rear half shafts torque vector and send power to the outside. I’m simplifying a bit here for obvious reasons. It does not spin the rears as fast as the RS did, compared to the front wheels. But the similarities are greater than they are the other way around. I paid 33.5k + TTL for my truck, new. Loaded sans touchscreen and ADAS. 2019 MY, purchased in 2019.
Having said all that, same as you. I cannot understand NOT offering the same system in either the CTR or ITS. The CTR I get “we’re the fastest FWD car on the planet” etc for marketing purposes. But even it with AWD could have really been something. But I understand it staying FWD. The ITS was the opportunity to put their SH-AWD in it and they didn’t. Just a rebadged same car with some fluff. I just find it fascinating that I have an outstanding torque vectoring AWD system in my Honda truck but Honda doesn’t offer it in either of their Honda/Acura offerings. So strange. I drove every truck on the market in 2019, gas diesel, compact, full size, Raptors, name it. The Honda won due to the drivetrain and driving dynamics. It’s the best pavement handling truck on the market and benefits greatly from being unibody. Its towing capabilities meet what I need of towing enclosed motorcycle trailers and watercraft. It also has more payload capacity than the Raptor does.
Honda is just as frustrating on the motorcycle side. I own a Honda motorcycle, among my other bikes. We, the customers and enthusiasts, have been asking them for a V4 liter for over 20 years. We asked for the V5 when it was made for MotoGP as well. The answer is no. My Honda is a V4 but it’s a sport tourer (VFR1200) not a literbike, a superbike, you know the scalpel. My VFR handles close to one and is a sportbike but we’ve pined for a V4 Fireblade for over 20 years and jack bone S. Inline 4, traditional inline 4, not a crossplane like Yamaha offers (fires like a 90 degree V4), is all they offer. On the car side, FWD only. I mean can you make anything else? RWD, AWD, V6, something other than a FWD inline 4? The answer is no
Is it hate though? I haven’t seen anyone blatantly hate the car, I just see a lot of comparisons where people say some car is “better” not that the GRC is bad.
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Most of the comments on these videos is people complaining they can’t get one and hating Toyota for it. I find this annoying because it’s so ignorant, especially when compared to Honda.
I think people are only bothered by negative criticism if it is inconsistent or just completely out of touch with ethos of the car.
Most of the resentment here is probably from the perception of how much reviewers downplay the inclusion of AWD, which is completely valid. It also shows how much journalists are out-of-touch with the market. It’s kind of reflected by production numbers, even in the context of one-too-few, as well.
Honda has no reason to produce less FL5s than FK8s outside of softened demand and to protect brand value. It is a defensive move, and something that would really make me not want to support them.
Close to 60% of new cars in the US are AWD now. FWD is a huge compromise in an all-weather daily that reviewers seem oblivious to, but if you’re just driving it on a track or short term for a review, probably easier to overlook.
Oh I thought we were talking about content creators still. Lmao.
I agree, there’s a lot to unpack with everything. I try to have these convos with my Honda friends for example but they usually only find/react off of the negative comments of our cars to prove a point. It’s a similar thing on the other side was well.
I would say the SG crew got some unbelievable access to behind the scenes Honda interviews with key personnel which may have swayed their opinion. That just makes sense to me, if there are two great cars, and one manufacturer looks after me, I'm going to have a bias also!
I will say as an older chap, if I got out of a CTR and there was a full length mirror pointed straight at me as I did I would laugh at myself. IMO it definitely has a market, and I don't put myself in it demographic wise. I think the GRC is more subtle and less in your face. Also i will also buy AWD over anything else if i have the option.
I will say as an older chap, if I got out of a CTR and there was a full length mirror pointed straight at me as I did I would laugh at myself. IMO it definitely has a market, and I don't put myself in it demographic wise. I think the GRC is more subtle and less in your face. Also i will also buy AWD over anything else if i have the option.
Great post. Yup, I call what many of them do ”narrow review”. It isn’t a 4 season review. It’s brief bs. “Oh it’s damp today”. I mean I get some of it. You can’t call the press officer and get it on a whim. But they do not do proper 4 season testing in anything, ever. So what they do is very very narrow point of view to the point it is comical to me. People don’t understand this fact so start quoting what they say like it’s the gospel. It’s hilarious. Especially when you think of two owners doing verbal jabs at a parksyourcar and coffee hood up me quoting track lap times when neither of the owners have ever been to a track and never will. Narrow views being quoted and irrelevancy used as an argument. Otay!
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Nothing against the CTR, very capable car.
But the glory days of Honda went south when the redlines went south of 8K.
Honda is a great brand and glad Honda is still making fun cars. Toyota and the GR cars are just doing it better now.
But the glory days of Honda went south when the redlines went south of 8K.
Honda is a great brand and glad Honda is still making fun cars. Toyota and the GR cars are just doing it better now.
Technically Toyota is re-entering it’s glory days again while the performance division has been renamed/reshaped 2 times. Lmao.
Hopefully Toyota can continue to build GR into a powerhouse where people stop referencing other cars.
But, but “It’s the spiritual successor to the STi”. I know that one is your favorite
Absolutely drives me crazy, but I hate that term for any car. I remember when people called the RS the spiritual successor to the EVO too. It’s almost like a backhanded compliment to me.But, but “It’s the spiritual successor to the STi”. I know that one is your favorite
People can call me salty but that’s a hill I’ll die on. 🤣
What they should really say is... "The spiritual successor to the Celica GT-Four" I think people forget that car existed.
My first car was a 93 Celica GTS, really wanted the all-trac. I miss the flip-up lights...
Naw because Toyota outright said the GR Yaris is the spiritual successor to that car. That’s the proper use of the term spiritual successor. Like the GR86 is the spiritual successor to the AE86 because it shares the same ethos on purpose but doesn’t share relation.
Toyota is the only company that has this issue where people mishmash nameplates like that, although they were all sold the same time 😂
Well in that case, how about spiritual successor to the Celica All-trac? since we never got the Celica GT-Four here in the states.
Celica All-Trac --> GR Corolla (NA Exclusive)
Well per Toyota Japan this Corolla just succeeds itself. Because if you want to run it down history there was an All Trac Corolla and a WRC Corolla, and every sporty Corolla borrowed parts from other sports cars in the past like the GRC does the Yaris. 4AGE was in the MR2, variant of the 3S engine in the Celica was also in the highest performance Corolla before the GRC, Corolla TRD 2000.Well in that case, how about spiritual successor to the Celica All-trac? since we never got the Celica GT-Four here in the states.
Celica All-Trac --> GR Corolla (NA Exclusive)
Then we have reports of Akio wanting a Celica coming back and with how he described the GRC, he doesn’t consider this any spiritual successor to that car. Rightfully so though.
It’s kinda like calling a CTR/Si, a Prelude successor. Then saying the GRC is a STI successor, is like saying the new Mustang is the spiritual successor to the Camaro. 😂
ok I give up... 😢
Hey at the end of the day we still got the best car in the segment though. 😂
Yeah they definitely oversold the car in terms of it being a road going rally car.
Some people got this idea from the advertising that it was going to be a reincarnation of the Focus RS but even more powerful with proper drift capabilities or even like the original WRX STI when it came came out and was punching well above it's weight.
Ya I was R Compound USA talking to the owner while I got my Winter tires put on the FiST ( Conti Extreme Sport 02’s a pretty nice Summer tire that functions quite well in the rain)
Apparently he does tests drives for a lot of companies. He also tracks a S2000 and a gutted Civic with staggered tire setup to make it rotate like a RWD.
Anyway he test drove the GRC on track and was underwhelmed, though I think a lot of it has to do with he started in 50/50 diff overheated and he could not check out 30/70 .
I also think because of that his opinion was skewed. He actually favored the Focus RS over it for that reason but he also drove the CTR and the Elantra N he was surprised by the EN he said it handles quite well.
He did sing praise for the CTR which I also believe in truth is most likely a great car that unfortunately looks over the top boy racer and is FWD . I myself cannot get around that.
So it’s no problem of me ruling out the CTR or the Elantra which again is butt ugly . Funny thing is , I think The GRC gets a bad rap for being dropped into a category by most which is primarily FWD. Just because it’s a a Hatchback. … edit ya I know the Corolla is a FWD car these days that is normally pitted against a Civic in stock trim.
Though I am baffled as too why Toyota managed to release the car and advertise it like a track weapon that was amazing to drift when in truth between the over heating diffs issues and the ET phone home nanny.
I mean they did kinda set themselves up for the bad rap. I see beyond these kind of things though because I come from a time that cars rarely came from the factory fully setup. You knew you had to modify it to get the full potential . Of course the next refrain is if I am going to pay xxx I expect it to be …. 🤣
All Said I am not deterred.
Apparently he does tests drives for a lot of companies. He also tracks a S2000 and a gutted Civic with staggered tire setup to make it rotate like a RWD.
Anyway he test drove the GRC on track and was underwhelmed, though I think a lot of it has to do with he started in 50/50 diff overheated and he could not check out 30/70 .
I also think because of that his opinion was skewed. He actually favored the Focus RS over it for that reason but he also drove the CTR and the Elantra N he was surprised by the EN he said it handles quite well.
He did sing praise for the CTR which I also believe in truth is most likely a great car that unfortunately looks over the top boy racer and is FWD . I myself cannot get around that.
So it’s no problem of me ruling out the CTR or the Elantra which again is butt ugly . Funny thing is , I think The GRC gets a bad rap for being dropped into a category by most which is primarily FWD. Just because it’s a a Hatchback. … edit ya I know the Corolla is a FWD car these days that is normally pitted against a Civic in stock trim.
Though I am baffled as too why Toyota managed to release the car and advertise it like a track weapon that was amazing to drift when in truth between the over heating diffs issues and the ET phone home nanny.
I mean they did kinda set themselves up for the bad rap. I see beyond these kind of things though because I come from a time that cars rarely came from the factory fully setup. You knew you had to modify it to get the full potential . Of course the next refrain is if I am going to pay xxx I expect it to be …. 🤣
All Said I am not deterred.
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