[Sid SB]

Oh I do agree they come across as being a bit more even handed about the car. I have already said it and I do think it’s completely true Savage Geese seem to have a built in bias going in favor of the Honda et al. Everyday driver tends to be a lot more even handed as well and in fact I like watching them for that.

Also in response to Jeonsa’s comment about Savage Geese above thing is not everyone ever jocked the Type R outside the Honda world . Which is why they seem to paint themselves into the corner of being Honda boys and fanboys through and through.

Toyota and Nissan in a way occupied a whole different segment being RWD cars for the most part. Ya don’t get me wrong Honda is a great company and the NSX and S2000 were amazing as were and are their Formula one efforts and Bikes ….but take those away and they are a FWD car company. Always for the most part have been. I do not consider FWD the pinnacle of motorsports in any way shape or form though.

Both Toyota and Nissan were the RWD car companies of course Nissan also did amazing AWD cars with the R32, and R34., R35,. Suburu was the AWD rally car the GR does deserve to be compared to A Subie in that sense but then Suburu was a whole different AWD niche . . Toyota faired into Subie territory when it came to AWD of course with the AWD Celica though the marketing team would have you believe that car was huge it was really a niche vehicle that did not make as much as an automotive splash as they would have you believe though Toyota’s marketing department is famous for over hyping their racing efforts while not bad are not nearly as long as Nissans and Mazda’s . Toyota has been the company that much reminds of Ford with the ya we can do that let’s go build this race car go win a few series and go home and only sell limited production numbers. Whereas both Nissan and Mazda went out and competed for 20 plus years in motorsports.
Not hating on Toyota just calling it as I have observed it over the years. Akio I think fought with the board over these things for years. I am sure if he had his way more often the company would have competed at the same level as Nissan and Mazda did, but unfortunately the truth was they made great mundane it don ‘t break family cars and trucks perhaps in trucks they did compete for longer I will give them that.

SG do seem to be all things Honda at the moment, but I remember Mark waxing lyrical about Honda second gear issues some years ago. SG seemed overall positive about their GR86 ownership and Mark started with FR-S videos (modding and auto cross videos if I remember correctly). SG's knocking of the GRC just seems over the top compared with many other reviewers. Just watched the last Speed Academy video and DP seemed pretty stoked about the track drive (though with modded suspension and tires).

 

[GRorolla]

SG's knocking of the GRC just seems over the top compared with many other reviewers. Just watched the last Speed Academy video and DP seemed pretty stoked about the track drive (though with modded suspension and tires).

I'd say probably the biggest difference is the two tracks. Autobahn CC is a full blown course where Toronto Motorsport Park is a glorified autoX circuit.

Honestly for 99% of situations that I (or anyone really) will be in, the GRC is the better option and seems to be the more fun ride.
SG goes a little too much on the track ability of the car. Though honestly if the rear diff didn't overheat I think they'd have a hard time knocking the GRC as much. as they did.

 

[sublime1996525]

I agree with a lot here. My GRC is my DD. I wanted a fun, awd, 6spd that’s great in snow and that helps me miss my Focus RS less. This car ticks those boxes. For track use, I have my GT350. I can’t wrap my head around going on and on about a fwd car being the it thing for track use.

 

[Jeonsa]

I agree with a lot here. My GRC is my DD. I wanted a fun, awd, 6spd that’s great in snow and that helps me miss my Focus RS less. This car ticks those boxes. For track use, I have my GT350. I can’t wrap my head around going on and on about a fwd car being the it thing for track use.

I mean the whole “Type R” thing is suppose to be the “Track” Honda. Thats pretty much its whole selling point. Suppose to be that do all commuter but can do really well on the track for those who can’t afford 2 cars. But with all the insane prices and markups that’s out the door. 😂

 

[driftfreaq]

I mean the whole “Type R” thing is suppose to be the “Track” Honda. Thats pretty much its whole selling point. Suppose to be that do all commuter but can do really well on the track for those who can’t afford 2 cars. But with all the insane prices and markups that’s out the door. 😂

Ya that whole idea is amusing especially since Honda built a pretty amazing track weapon with the S2k and granted they don’t make it anymore but to say the CTR is going to be your go to track car is just silly in my eyes. My FiST would almost be a superior vehicle for it due to the way handles and it’s now salvage title. I.E. not a lot of overall resale value so if it gets balled up I shrug and go home.😂I That was like my old Black 98 M3 ya it had a salvage title but was totally straight minor damage or theft recovery . If I had balled it up it would not have mattered. Though RWD or AWD is what I would prefer for track

 

[HKz]

I liked last gen CTR and I like this generation too, but per dollar Toyota has done better with the GRC. The Civic has grown a lot and since the 2000s, I think packaging has gotten worse and worse... why do FWD cars need a mimic "long hood" proportions? I think it is dumb especially since you don't really get an appreciable amount of extra interior space. Yes, perhaps Civic is objectively better looking as a result but it is still a frumpy FWD looking car. GRC all the way.

 

[driftfreaq]

I liked last gen CTR and I like this generation too, but per dollar Toyota has done better with the GRC. The Civic has grown a lot and since the 2000s, I think packaging has gotten worse and worse... why do FWD cars need a mimic "long hood" proportions? I think it is dumb especially since you don't really get an appreciable amount of extra interior space. Yes, perhaps Civic is objectively better looking as a result but it is still a frumpy FWD looking car. GRC all the way.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder🤣 The CTR looks marginally better than the last version but still ugly . The GRC is not exactly pretty but pulls it off looking like a group B rally Car. I did not like initial pics of it. It took seeing it in person to appreciate it. Though driving it definitely alters the perspective positively .

 

[Jeonsa]

Ya that whole idea is amusing especially since Honda built a pretty amazing track weapon with the S2k and granted they don’t make it anymore but to say the CTR is going to be your go to track car is just silly in my eyes. My FiST would almost be a superior vehicle for it due to the way handles and it’s now salvage title. I.E. not a lot of overall resale value so if it gets balled up I shrug and go home.😂I That was like my old Black 98 M3 ya it had a salvage title but was totally straight minor damage or theft recovery . If I had balled it up it would not have mattered. Though RWD or AWD is what I would prefer for track

It’s funny you bring that up because with how these prices are you almost expect something like a S2k to cost around 45k+ and not a Civic. Lmao.

 

[HKz]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder🤣 The CTR looks marginally better than the last version but still ugly . The GRC is not exactly pretty but pulls it off looking like a group B rally Car. I did not like initial pics of it. It took seeing it in person to appreciate it. Though driving it definitely alters the perspective positively .

Meh, wasn't interested in either car for the looks 🤷‍♂️ they are still butt ugly versus a Lexus LC. Both can look pretty mean which is good enough for these sorta cars.

Either way GRC > CTR 🤘

 

[Jeonsa]

Meh, wasn't interested in either car for the looks 🤷‍♂️ they are still butt ugly versus a Lexus LC. Both can look pretty mean which is good enough for these sorta cars.

Either way GRC > CTR 🤘

LC is gorgeous.

 

[fredzy]

I made the swap from GRC to CTR. Don't hate me, CTR is where my heart always was. I'm glad I did what I did, can say I've lived with both, ~1 year in the GRC. Especially if I'd have eaten the ADM and went with CTR from the start, I would have always wondered whether I could have saved 10 grand going with the Toyota, was it a more fun car for the money etc.

I'll eventually put a writeup on my thoughts as a normal guy looking to enjoy these cars everywhere but the track. The antigoose. The short of it is the CTR is nicer to live with but it's not a sweep by any means. There is a lot I will miss about the GRC.

 

[sublime1996525]

I made the swap from GRC to CTR. Don't hate me, CTR is where my heart always was. I'm glad I did what I did, can say I've lived with both, ~1 year in the GRC. Especially if I'd have eaten the ADM and went with CTR from the start, I would have always wondered whether I could have saved 10 grand going with the Toyota, was it a more fun car for the money etc.

I'll eventually put a writeup on my thoughts as a normal guy looking to enjoy these cars everywhere but the track. The antigoose. The short of it is the CTR is nicer to live with but it's not a sweep by any means. There is a lot I will miss about the GRC.

No hate here. I really don’t think you can go wrong with either car. Enjoy the CTR!

 

[driftfreaq]

I made the swap from GRC to CTR. Don't hate me, CTR is where my heart always was. I'm glad I did what I did, can say I've lived with both, ~1 year in the GRC. Especially if I'd have eaten the ADM and went with CTR from the start, I would have always wondered whether I could have saved 10 grand going with the Toyota, was it a more fun car for the money etc.

I'll eventually put a writeup on my thoughts as a normal guy looking to enjoy these cars everywhere but the track. The antigoose. The short of it is the CTR is nicer to live with but it's not a sweep by any means. There is a lot I will miss about the GRC.

That’s fine and I can respect that . It’s the car you really wanted. You sound even handed and not just jumping on bandwagon so to speak.
The thing that I think gets a lot of us about SG is the whole CTR or go home attitude. Once something like that happens they way it has with them you just can’t watch their vids and feel like your getting an unbiased opinion. I have seen other youtube reviewers not be so biased in liking a car actually pointing out good parts about the opposing car rather than just outright dumping on it. I mean they are not Top Gear and Jeremy Clarkson who you expect to take a shit on the car.

 

[Sid SB]

I made the swap from GRC to CTR. Don't hate me, CTR is where my heart always was. I'm glad I did what I did, can say I've lived with both, ~1 year in the GRC. Especially if I'd have eaten the ADM and went with CTR from the start, I would have always wondered whether I could have saved 10 grand going with the Toyota, was it a more fun car for the money etc.

I'll eventually put a writeup on my thoughts as a normal guy looking to enjoy these cars everywhere but the track. The antigoose. The short of it is the CTR is nicer to live with but it's not a sweep by any means. There is a lot I will miss about the GRC.

I think that is great, you get to try both. The Type S would be on my list if I were in the market at the moment (and I had the $).

 

[SC23]

Means something apparently because people are still buying the overpriced things and keeping them, while others are dumping the GRC.

As stated earlier though it’s the story that probably drives public perception the most.

Yeah brand name recognition means clout on the street (misplaced as it is) but also the CTR would be a much easier car to live with on a daily basis.

From what I've seen the main reason people are getting rid of their GRC's is because of lack of space. It seems like Americans don't actually like small cars (even if they say the opposite).

 

[Jeonsa]

Yeah brand name recognition means clout on the street (misplaced as it is) but also the CTR would be a much easier car to live with on a daily basis.

From what I've seen the main reason people are getting rid of their GRC's is because of lack of space. It seems like Americans don't actually like small cars (even if they say the opposite).

Yeah that and the GRC isn’t what they “thought” it would be from classifieds I’ve seen.

But I think that’s a Toyota rep/marketing problem and not really a GRC issue.

 

[d15b7]

Also perhaps many of the folks who purchased GRCs weren’t able to test drive them first? When I bought my FK8 new in late 2018, the dealer was adamant that there would be no test drives. Period. I was 99% sure I’d love the car and I’d been working on them for over a month til I got the price down to MSRP ($35.7k at that time; they had started at $8k over lol). So I bought the car and of course loved it (I still own it to this day, and if anything, I love it even more than the day I bought it). But the point is, maybe some folks have bought GRCs without testing them and end up with buyers remorse due to the fact that it’s not what they expected

 

[fredzy]

From what I've seen the main reason people are getting rid of their GRC's is because of lack of space. It seems like Americans don't actually like small cars (even if they say the opposite).

I think so. Maybe small-car loving Americans are used to small cars that surprise you with more practicality than their exterior would suggest. Fiesta comes to mind. The Corolla doesn't do that. It looks bigger than say a Fiesta but is somehow less practical thanks to its sleek proportions + rear diff area. I knew what I was getting into when I bought it and was able to make it work for the most part. I expected the nature of the car to make up for that compromise, and honestly it would have stuck if there weren't something a little better out there for me.

Now if Subaru would have read any of my long, unhinged forum posts from 2013-14 and given in to my demands, I never would have given either of these cars a second look because I'd have a Levorg with a WRX 6MT drivetrain in it.

 

[Sparkko]

I think so. Maybe small-car loving Americans are used to small cars that surprise you with more practicality than their exterior would suggest. Fiesta comes to mind. The Corolla doesn't do that. It looks bigger than say a Fiesta but is somehow less practical thanks to its sleek proportions + rear diff area. I knew what I was getting into when I bought it and was able to make it work for the most part. I expected the nature of the car to make up for that compromise, and honestly it would have stuck if there weren't something a little better out there for me.

Now if Subaru would have read any of my long, unhinged forum posts from 2013-14 and given in to my demands, I never would have given either of these cars a second look because I'd have a Levorg with a WRX 6MT drivetrain in it.

I feel like the Integra Type S would be the better car for me if I could afford it. It's about $5k out of my reasonable price range. The extra storage over the GRC and added luxury over the Civic Type R are great. I live in Alabama so I don't need the AWD if I'm being realistic. It never snows here. Honda and Acura dealers are out of their mind around me too. The cheapest CTR is $8k over MSRP and the cheapest Type S is $10k over. I was able to get the GRC for $500 under MSRP.

 

[Jeonsa]

Also perhaps many of the folks who purchased GRCs weren’t able to test drive them first? When I bought my FK8 new in late 2018, the dealer was adamant that there would be no test drives. Period. I was 99% sure I’d love the car and I’d been working on them for over a month til I got the price down to MSRP ($35.7k at that time; they had started at $8k over lol). So I bought the car and of course loved it (I still own it to this day, and if anything, I love it even more than the day I bought it). But the point is, maybe some folks have bought GRCs without testing them and end up with buyers remorse due to the fact that it’s not what they expected

I think so. Maybe small-car loving Americans are used to small cars that surprise you with more practicality than their exterior would suggest. Fiesta comes to mind. The Corolla doesn't do that. It looks bigger than say a Fiesta but is somehow less practical thanks to its sleek proportions + rear diff area. I knew what I was getting into when I bought it and was able to make it work for the most part. I expected the nature of the car to make up for that compromise, and honestly it would have stuck if there weren't something a little better out there for me.

Now if Subaru would have read any of my long, unhinged forum posts from 2013-14 and given in to my demands, I never would have given either of these cars a second look because I'd have a Levorg with a WRX 6MT drivetrain in it.

Most of what I’ve seen is from me approving/disapproving people trying to scalp others to buy a CTR or another car. It’s not mainly size (though that is a factor, just again… not the main one). Even though that sounds more palatable to people.

Truth is the GRC isn’t perceived properly. Which like I’ve said a bunch of times is something that always happens to Toyotas. There’s actually a lot to break down on it.