[Jeonsa]

The GR has AWD, a manual park brake, shorter wheelbase, weighs less and is a better AutoX car from what I have seen (both personally & reviews). I live in a snow/rain area and will drive the car in winter. It was a no brainer for me.

I have nothing against the savagegeese review. I just think they put A LOT of weight on the track performance.
It's all personal opinion, brings me back to the EVO vs. STi days.

The GRC always being compared to older cars works against it in my opinion.

 

[black86]

The GRC always being compared to older cars works against it in my opinion.

I don't think he's comparing the GRC to the Evo nor STi. But the days of when we compared Evos to STi's... my guess, during that time I was on the outside looking in with my rwd cars haha, is how one was more track oriented using tech to gain a grip advantage while the other was more visceral and mechanical in nature not lending to tech (in the beginning) to gain more grip.

AYC vs asymmetrical AWD.

The FK8 and beyond use mechanical tech to overcome torque understeer* with MacPherson front set up. Unfortunately, I'm a Toyota fanboy, I know Toyota did this already with the super strut. Which wasn't offered in the US on their hottest fwd cars of the time. But Honda capitalized it and now makes the worlds fastest fwd cars. 😁

While the GRC uses some fancy RAV4 coupler to split the drive 60/40, 50/50 or 30/70 and overheats 🙈 and crazy 3 cylinder that makes 100hp a cylinder.

I wish Toyota would come out with a mild hatch/sedan, a fwd with a g16e along with the super strut of old. Actually that sounds kinda hot. Or make a 4cy variant. Whatever. I'd like to see how that would compare to the new stuff Honda and now Hyundai are putting out. Apples to apples-ish. 😁

 

[Jeonsa]

I don't think he's comparing the GRC to the Evo nor STi. But the days of when we compared Evos to STi's... my guess, during that time I was on the outside looking in with my rwd cars haha, is how one was more track oriented using tech to gain a grip advantage while the other was more visceral and mechanical in nature not lending to tech (in the beginning) to gain more grip.

AYC vs asymmetrical AWD.

The FK8 and beyond use mechanical tech to overcome torque understeer* with MacPherson front set up. Unfortunately, I'm a Toyota fanboy, I know Toyota did this already with the super strut. Which wasn't offered in the US on their hottest fwd cars of the time. But Honda capitalized it and now makes the worlds fastest fwd cars. 😁

While the GRC uses some fancy RAV4 coupler to split the drive 60/40, 50/50 or 30/70 and overheats 🙈 and crazy 3 cylinder that makes 100hp a cylinder.

I wish Toyota would come out with a mild hatch/sedan, a fwd with a g16e along with the super strut of old. Actually that sounds kinda hot. Or make a 4cy variant. Whatever. I'd like to see how that would compare to the new stuff Honda and now Hyundai are putting out. Apples to apples-ish. 😁

What I’m saying is constantly comparing it to those cars doesn’t help it, kinda the point we were bringing up with the heritage and stories driving things.

this forum is full of “this car reminds me of…” and it’s the only car in the segment like that. STI and EVO were very similar in ways but no one ever said they remind them of eachother. Lmao.

Like Kobe Bryant being great, but because he’s almost a carbon copy of MJ, he’s kinda overlooked in certain conversations. 😂

 

[sugarfish]

And this is why TheTopher is still one of my favorite YouTube channels. Despite being a FL5 owner, he's not out there trying to bring down platforms that compete in the price segment. He fully understands what different cars were designed for and where they excel.

 

[Jeonsa]

And this is why TheTopher is still one of my favorite YouTube channels. Despite being a FL5 owner, he's not out there trying to bring down platforms that compete in the price segment. He fully understands what different cars were designed for and where they excel.

Yeah he’s great. He had integrity coming out of the car as opposed to other content creators. Only thing I’d say is putting the Corolla on dirt and saying “this is what it’s made for!” Is not genuine or really realistic.

I just think in the segment the Corolla is the best all arounder (not the best at any one of those things). All weather, everyday, backroad, commute, occasional track days (in stock form), etc. just like the engineers intended. During the Japan reveal they described the car and its history perfectly.

 

[CharlieGsanD]

NGL, i miss the Evo Vs Subaru days.
bias, trash talking & disagreements aside, it made both sides want to push the platforms further and made for one hell of a sibling rivalry that in the end it made both platforms better for enthusiasts

The geese guys praising the CTR interior makes me feel like they probably would have been in the STi camp.

 

[sugarfish]

Yeah he’s great. He had integrity coming out of the car as opposed to other content creators. Only thing I’d say is putting the Corolla on dirt and saying “this is what it’s made for!” Is not genuine or really realistic.

I just think in the segment the Corolla is the best all arounder. All weather, everyday, backroad, commute, occasional track days (in stock form), etc. just like the engineers intended. During the Japan reveal they described the car and it’s history perfectly.

I agree with you, the main point I was trying to get across is that he's not like "it's not as good of a track car as the Type R, therefore the Type R is the far superior". Because it's really not that simple as you know

 

[Cockrolla]

IDFC what anyone here or SG says, the FL5 is a glorified FWD for the price it is and its fuckall worth the money, the HONDA FIT has succeeded the TYPE R lineage better than the FL5. NOT to discredit the HONDA FIT in any type of way, it is by far the MOST ENJOYABLE RECENT FWD HONDA to date. The GRC is cool and all but even without AWD, the FIT is infinitely better cost wise and practicality. GRC can rock in the snow like no FWD could, and its valued lower than a base CTR, there is no argument to be made. Congratulations, you made a longer wheelbase sedan faster in the straight and compensated for the weight increase with stickier tire technology to mask the cornering. NO amount of tire grip will change the fact that the FL5 is too fucking fat. Like an obese child with a lettuce wrapped costco hotdog. You're all fucking delusional if you think otherwise (satire please don't get offended)

 

[shafted]

Ya'll should watch the team O'Neil will it rally GRC Episode. I'm glad he helped explain the 50-50.

 

[quikag]

IDFC what anyone here or SG says, the FL5 is a glorified FWD for the price it is and its fuckall worth the money, the HONDA FIT has succeeded the TYPE R lineage better than the FL5. NOT to discredit the HONDA FIT in any type of way, it is by far the MOST ENJOYABLE RECENT FWD HONDA to date. The GRC is cool and all but even without AWD, the FIT is infinitely better cost wise and practicality. GRC can rock in the snow like no FWD could, and its valued lower than a base CTR, there is no argument to be made. Congratulations, you made a longer wheelbase sedan faster in the straight and compensated for the weight increase with stickier tire technology to mask the cornering. NO amount of tire grip will change the fact that the FL5 is too fucking fat. Like an obese child with a lettuce wrapped costco hotdog. You're all fucking delusional if you think otherwise (satire please don't get offended)

Ditto. Never had much interest in the Type R due to styling and the fact it's a quiet sewing machine turbo 4 with a decent suspension, FWD, and sticky tires. I mean it's cool for what it is, but it just doesn't have the fizz the GR or some other hot hatches have IMHO.

My Type R equivalent is my CT5-V Blackwing six-speed, but with double the power, RWD, and better suspension/brakes. Admittedly, it's about double the price, but whatever. Type R is too refined and boring for me with wrong wheel drive.

 

[Jeonsa]

Ditto. Never had much interest in the Type R due to styling and the fact it's a quiet sewing machine turbo 4 with a decent suspension, FWD, and sticky tires. I mean it's cool for what it is, but it just doesn't have the fizz the GR or some other hot hatches have IMHO.

My Type R equivalent is my CT5-V Blackwing six-speed, but with double the power, RWD, and better suspension/brakes. Admittedly, it's about double the price, but whatever. Type R is too refined and boring for me with wrong wheel drive.

It definitely attracts a certain buyer.

 

[driftfreaq]

Ditto. Never had much interest in the Type R due to styling and the fact it's a quiet sewing machine turbo 4 with a decent suspension, FWD, and sticky tires. I mean it's cool for what it is, but it just doesn't have the fizz the GR or some other hot hatches have IMHO.

My Type R equivalent is my CT5-V Blackwing six-speed, but with double the power, RWD, and better suspension/brakes. Admittedly, it's about double the price, but whatever. Type R is too refined and boring for me with wrong wheel drive.

CTR initially looked Horrible., “hello 1998 calling we want our Gundam back!“ Honda managed to clean up the looks but… I feel the same way as above about it. I would hazard to say Your CTS-V is probably even a bit more interesting but for the cost. The CTS-V Wagon was something special indeed. Of course station wagons just have their own thing going on. Funny the CTR is nearly the size of a station wagon with non of the coolness🤣.
I just never considered FWD cars to be ultimate track weapons. Still don’t , it’s the exuberance the SG guys have that is a bit overbearing. It’s like CTR or go home.

 

[Tacocat]

IDFC what anyone here or SG says, the FL5 is a glorified FWD for the price it is and its fuckall worth the money, the HONDA FIT has succeeded the TYPE R lineage better than the FL5. NOT to discredit the HONDA FIT in any type of way, it is by far the MOST ENJOYABLE RECENT FWD HONDA to date. The GRC is cool and all but even without AWD, the FIT is infinitely better cost wise and practicality. GRC can rock in the snow like no FWD could, and its valued lower than a base CTR, there is no argument to be made. Congratulations, you made a longer wheelbase sedan faster in the straight and compensated for the weight increase with stickier tire technology to mask the cornering. NO amount of tire grip will change the fact that the FL5 is too fucking fat. Like an obese child with a lettuce wrapped costco hotdog. You're all fucking delusional if you think otherwise (satire please don't get offended)

I've got a GRC and my wife has a Fit that I've also driven extensively. I agree with you 1000%. My wife keeps digging on the GRC for it's awful cargo capacity. The Fit is also super fun, but ours is slow AF due to it's age a mileage.

 

[Sid SB]

I do not think the GRC is perfect but SG have really focused on the negatives of the GRC while being so high on the CTR. Waiting for Jack to say that the CTR wins due having a center armrest and because the Honda powered RB19 won the F1 championship. Both cars have their pro's and con's. Speed Academy are doing some mods to their GRC, they do talk about the negatives of their GRC but not in a way that makes you think that the GRC is a rebadged Yugo.

 

[driftfreaq]

I do not think the GRC is perfect but SG have really focused on the negatives of the GRC while being so high on the CTR. Waiting for Jack to say that the CTR wins due having a center armrest and because the Honda powered RB19 won the F1 championship. Both cars have their pro's and con's. Speed Academy are doing some mods to their GRC, they do talk about the negatives of their GRC but not in a way that makes you think that the GRC is a rebadged Yugo.

guys have great insights and moronic ones as well. The dampers and wheel choices were brilliant. For being a supposed track focused group they completely missed the fact that the Morizo had the stock wing because it works on the car aerodynamically while the wing on the Circuit is completely non aerodynamically correct wing that was thrown on for looks. It has been documented as we all know that even Toyota in testing determined it to be detrimental.
You would have to put a larger fully functional wing on the car and it would only be effective above 85 mph.
I.E. they went kinda ricer on the Morizo by tossing on the Circuit wing for. the sake of looks,

 

[Sid SB]

guys have great insights and moronic ones as well. The dampers and wheel choices were brilliant. For being a supposed track focused group they completely missed the fact that the Morizo had the stock wing because it works on the car aerodynamically while the wing on the Circuit is completely non aerodynamically correct wing that was thrown on for looks. It has been documented as we all know that even Toyota in testing determined it to be detrimental.
You would have to put a larger fully functional wing on the car and it would only be effective above 85 mph.
I.E. they went kinda ricer on the Morizo by tossing on the Circuit wing for. the sake of looks,

I agree on the wing, tbh I prefer the Core wing to the Circuit, just prefer the look. DP is decent hot shoe, so will interesting to see him driving the car more next. I was thinking more about their positive style compared to SG. Everyday Driver did place the CTR ahead of the GRC in their comparison video, but were positive about the GRC and kind of said it was the one they wanted to take home.

 

[Tacocat]

I also agree the GRC is by no means perfect. However, my main issue with the primary grievances they're airing are entirely predicated upon assuming that the typical owner wants to track their car very regularly. How common is that?! If you're not planning on tracking the car, their primary grievances are not applicable at all. This context/assumption should be much more explicit in their videos. If they owned this caveat, I'd have a lot less issues with their sentiments.

 

[Jeonsa]

I also agree the GRC is by no means perfect. However, my main issue with the primary grievances they're airing are entirely predicated upon assuming that the typical owner wants to track their car very regularly. How common is that?! If you're not planning on tracking the car, their primary grievances are not applicable at all. This context/assumption should be much more explicit in their videos. If they owned this caveat, I'd have a lot less issues with their sentiments.

After actually watching the video all the way through, their main thing stems from the fact it’s not “dedicated” to something. They went on about the Type R, what it means to people, original engineers and new engineers.

Which I get that, but the things they say the GRC is good at are the things Sakamoto San was aiming for. Pretty much what they were looking for is similar to the Japan GRC reveal with the Corolla history, what it’s done and how it changed to fit different eras. Toyota gave their marketing team/reps too much leeway.

 

[driftfreaq]

I agree on the wing, tbh I prefer the Core wing to the Circuit, just prefer the look. DP is decent hot shoe, so will interesting to see him driving the car more next. I was thinking more about their positive style compared to SG. Everyday Driver did place the CTR ahead of the GRC in their comparison video, but were positive about the GRC and kind of said it was the one they wanted to take home.

Oh I do agree they come across as being a bit more even handed about the car. I have already said it and I do think it’s completely true Savage Geese seem to have a built in bias going in favor of the Honda et al. Everyday driver tends to be a lot more even handed as well and in fact I like watching them for that.

Also in response to Jeonsa’s comment about Savage Geese above thing is not everyone ever jocked the Type R outside the Honda world . Which is why they seem to paint themselves into the corner of being Honda boys and fanboys through and through.

Toyota and Nissan in a way occupied a whole different segment being RWD cars for the most part. Ya don’t get me wrong Honda is a great company and the NSX and S2000 were amazing as were and are their Formula one efforts and Bikes ….but take those away and they are a FWD car company. Always for the most part have been. I do not consider FWD the pinnacle of motorsports in any way shape or form though.

Both Toyota and Nissan were the RWD car companies of course Nissan also did amazing AWD cars with the R32, and R34., R35,. Suburu was the AWD rally car the GR does deserve to be compared to A Subie in that sense but then Suburu was a whole different AWD niche . . Toyota faired into Subie territory when it came to AWD of course with the AWD Celica though the marketing team would have you believe that car was huge it was really a niche vehicle that did not make as much as an automotive splash as they would have you believe though Toyota’s marketing department is famous for over hyping their racing efforts while not bad are not nearly as long as Nissans and Mazda’s . Toyota has been the company that much reminds of Ford with the ya we can do that let’s go build this race car go win a few series and go home and only sell limited production numbers. Whereas both Nissan and Mazda went out and competed for 20 plus years in motorsports.
Not hating on Toyota just calling it as I have observed it over the years. Akio I think fought with the board over these things for years. I am sure if he had his way more often the company would have competed at the same level as Nissan and Mazda did, but unfortunately the truth was they made great mundane it don ‘t break family cars and trucks perhaps in trucks they did compete for longer I will give them that.

 

[Jeonsa]

Also in response to Jeonsa’s comment about Savage Geese above thing is not everyone ever jocked the Type R outside the Honda world . Which is why they seem to paint themselves into the corner of being Honda boys and fanboys through and through.

I’m talking about their main points about why the CTR is better than the GRC which at first I was neutral on but saying it has a purpose and history comparably isn’t true. But then again that sounds like a rep issue.

and I agree that the Type R is relevant to a certain set of buyers outside the world but I’m considering 2 things, Toyota started the GR Corolla development after seeing it’s success in 2017 (from Tetsuya Tada himself), and although in Japan the sporty Corolla is well known, outside of it it doesn’t have a name like the CTR does.

Without a history lesson it’s one of the main reasons why every special Toyota is overlooked until it’s gone then it’s brought back as a collab or dead in Lexus archives.