[surfwaxsmitty]

I just use readily available "off the shelf" oil and change every 3-3.5K since a significant amount of my driving is in city traffic. I have used GTL Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0W-20, which was also highly rated by the motor oil geek. Right now, my GRC is running GTMO 0W-20 from complimentary ToyotaCare and the oil is supplied by ExxonMobil and I believe it is a hydrocracked group III blend. Plenty of VOA and UOA show that GTMO 0W-20 is a good oil. Frankly, any 0W-20 oils that is certified API SP/ ILSAC GF-6 will be plenty good for street driving in GRC. Just don't extend beyond the recommended 5K interval.

I just don't understand those AMSOIL fanbois who tout going 15K+ on their superior and pricy oil.
Would these folks prefer to shower only twice a week using expensive bar soap?😂 I rather shower daily with store bought Irish Spring.

For 99% of folks I think this is the best approach. Putting a vote in for Mobil 1 full syn, stock up Costco on sale 6qts for $35, change more frequently. Other than that, I did switch to the Japan made Toyota filters that were also a big larger.

love the deep dive people are doing though, particularly on the filters.

 

[bunterhiden]

There’s too much FUD, hearsay, and opinion surrounding oil.
My last oil report showed the oil was perfectly healthy after 5k and Blackstone recommended 7k for the next change. I’m not trying to penny pinch or tell others what to do, but working with factual data is far more valuable than arbitrary reasoning.

Last time I checked, BlackStone oil anaylsis + TBN is about $50. For me, I'd just spend that $50 on new oil+filter.

 

[apyao]

Yeah the cost of UOA is out of control — when I use up my current bulk samples (purchased a while back at a much lower price point) I’m not sure that I’m going to be doing any more.
I used to do them routinely after every oil change but I’m not sure the value equation adds up any longer.

Last time I checked, BlackStone oil anaylsis + TBN is about $50. For me, I'd just spend that $50 on new oil+filter.

 

[wheelhaus]

Last time I checked, BlackStone oil anaylsis + TBN is about $50. For me, I'd just spend that $50 on new oil+filter.

I'm not arguing the raw cost, of course its more expensive than just doing oil changes. Its pretty silly how car enthusiasts will spend thousands on parts, but bristle over a few bucks one or twice a year on maintenance items. I'm only pointing out the value in knowledge of what your engine and your oil is actually doing compared to the hunch of just changing it when you feel its appropriate, or the fear that something bad will happen if you don't change it by x,xxx miles. You gain far more insight than just the potential for stretching OCI. I personally enjoy the learning exercise and getting a health report on all sorts of stuff I might otherwise have no clue about, like whether there's coolant in the oil, or an indicator of some other problem.

 

[Ttamlin]

I just saw this video and have to share it.

Summarized: the thinnest I will ever run is 5w30, though I might go to 10w30 - I need to read through the differences.

I knew I'd find you in here!

 

[Ttamlin]

Venturing a guess here is that the G16E-GTS was designed with the ILSAC GF-6B standard in mind, whereas the FA20/FA24 was designed before the ILSAC GF-6A/B requirements were put in place (ie. 2020).

"The ILSAC GF-6B standard is characterized by:

• no backward compatibility with older engines
• greater ability to mitigate the LSPI phenomenon (Low Speed Pre-Ignition)
• good economy of engine operation (VIF tests)

This standard is only applicable in SAE 0W-16 viscosity with a minimum HTHS = 2.4"

7 stricter quality criteria for ILSAC GF-6 - the latest quality specification for engine oils.

Typically, car users distinguish engine oils by their viscosity (e.g. 5W-30, 0W-20 or 5W-40), considering this parameter as a quality indicator. This is not a sufficient factor to justify the compatibility of the oil with the engine. That's why quality standards are list...

totalenergies-eng.prowly.com

BTW - the higher the HTHS in the oil the better.

LSPI most commonly happens in situations like you're in 2nd gear at 2000rpm or lower and you want to accelerate without shifting to 1st gear, and you stomp on the throttle (getting the RPMs to rise as quickly as possible) instead of gently pushing on the throttle (allowing the RPMs to climb slowly). LSPI is most common in small displacement engines equipped with a turbo. In these situations (2nd gear @ 2000rpm or lower) downshifting to 1st gear is highly recommended.

Sadly, the HTHS results are not shown/posted for every oil, which is extremely frustrating. But it is a very important detail to look for.

For context, ILSAC GF-5 was introduced back in 2010 and the FA20 was introduced in 2012, meaning that the oils you could run were broader in terms of viscosity.

Whenever ILSAC GF-7 is introduced, you'll see engines that do not list ILSAC GF-6 oils as 'recommended.'

----

Small update. The LSPI example given applies to all gears, not just 2nd gear.

I did a little experiment yesterday, entirely by accident. I was pulling out of my office's parking lot, having just started the engine not 30 seconds before. "Avoid excessive acceleration" warning on the dash and all, just like usual.

When I pulled out, I realized the car coming up on me already in the travel lane was closer than I had thought, and I gave it more throttle than I normally would, at a lower RPM. Think ~75% at ~2250, not quite immediately, but the throttle input came in pretty fast. And in that moment, I was reminded that this car is throttle-by-wire. Utterly gutless accel, in comparison to what it would normally do. Totally expected behavior as well, right? Built-in protection against doing boneheaded shit that might result in LSPI (even if I wasn't really even getting into that danger zone at that moment).

Kinda makes me wonder about the whole LSPI theory of those couple of GRs that caught fire last year.

 

[Ttamlin]

After reading moving_target01's EXTENSIVE oil and filter breakdown posts, watching numerous videos from The Motor Oil Geek, reading literature on the matter, spending time on the Bob Is The Oil Guy forums, etc., I landed on

* AMSOil Signature Synthetic 5w30 oil

and

* Wix 51394CXP filter

Of course, since I'm not tracking the car, or even driving it that hard most of the time, I've been letting Toyota put their OEM stuff in at the 5k interval like they want to do. But halfway through that, I do my own change, and put in the good shit.

Also, don't let cost be a factor in this. Put the best oil and filter available in this engine. AMSOil is kinda pricey, but it's the best stuff out there. And Wix filters are actually pretty cheap from Rock Auto. Buy 'em by the case and they they're like $7.50 a piece, something like that.

 

[moving_target01]

After reading moving_target01's EXTENSIVE oil and filter breakdown posts, watching numerous videos from The Motor Oil Geek, reading literature on the matter, spending time on the Bob Is The Oil Guy forums, etc., I landed on

* AMSOil Signature Synthetic 5w30 oil

and

* Wix 51394CXP filter

Of course, since I'm not tracking the car, or even driving it that hard most of the time, I've been letting Toyota put their OEM stuff in at the 5k interval like they want to do. But halfway through that, I do my own change, and put in the good shit.

Also, don't let cost be a factor in this. Put the best oil and filter available in this engine. AMSOil is kinda pricey, but it's the best stuff out there. And Wix filters are actually pretty cheap from Rock Auto. Buy 'em by the case and they they're like $7.50 a piece, something like that.

I genuinely appreciate that you've put time and effort into your decision making process. That is all I could ever hope for from anyone that reads my sometimes lengthy posts.

 

[moving_target01]

I did a little experiment yesterday, entirely by accident. I was pulling out of my office's parking lot, having just started the engine not 30 seconds before. "Avoid excessive acceleration" warning on the dash and all, just like usual.

When I pulled out, I realized the car coming up on me already in the travel lane was closer than I had thought, and I gave it more throttle than I normally would, at a lower RPM. Think ~75% at ~2250, not quite immediately, but the throttle input came in pretty fast. And in that moment, I was reminded that this car is throttle-by-wire. Utterly gutless accel, in comparison to what it would normally do. Totally expected behavior as well, right? Built-in protection against doing boneheaded shit that might result in LSPI (even if I wasn't really even getting into that danger zone at that moment).

Kinda makes me wonder about the whole LSPI theory of those couple of GRs that caught fire last year.

I completely agree with your train of thought.

The infamous GR Corolla that caught fire because it went "over 85mph." There are several questions that come to mind:

1. Did the owner make any modifications of any kind to the electrical system in the engine bay (ie. replacing the horn, trying to get fancy with wiz bang knowledge, etc).

2. Did the owner ever put himself into an LSPI situation - LSPI = engine knock. Engine knock = damaging the engine.

3. Something else that I've not thought of.

I'm not one to make assumptions, so I won't.

 

[Jacques]

After reading moving_target01's EXTENSIVE oil and filter breakdown posts, watching numerous videos from The Motor Oil Geek, reading literature on the matter, spending time on the Bob Is The Oil Guy forums, etc., I landed on

* AMSOil Signature Synthetic 5w30 oil

and

* Wix 51394CXP filter

Of course, since I'm not tracking the car, or even driving it that hard most of the time, I've been letting Toyota put their OEM stuff in at the 5k interval like they want to do. But halfway through that, I do my own change, and put in the good shit.

Also, don't let cost be a factor in this. Put the best oil and filter available in this engine. AMSOil is kinda pricey, but it's the best stuff out there. And Wix filters are actually pretty cheap from Rock Auto. Buy 'em by the case and they they're like $7.50 a piece, something like that.

That's good oil. The price is on par with HPL's Premium Plus PCMO. The best oils are not cheap.

 

[Ttamlin]

I completely agree with your train of thought.

The infamous GR Corolla that caught fire because it went "over 85mph." There are several questions that come to mind:

1. Did the owner make any modifications of any kind to the electrical system in the engine bay (ie. replacing the horn, trying to get fancy with wiz bang knowledge, etc).

2. Did the owner ever put himself into an LSPI situation - LSPI = engine knock. Engine knock = damaging the engine.

3. Something else that I've not thought of.

I'm not one to make assumptions, so I won't.

Do we really think that replacing the horn might make that big a difference? I ask for two reasons.

1) Because I hated the stock horn and replaced it with a dual-tone horn setup from PIAA, though I made no changes to how the electricity for the horn is supplied, just bridging the live and running ground through the mount (no new relays or anything).

2) Curious how swapping in a new horn would make that drastic a difference in how the engine management might work.

Of course, there's a strong possibility that you were being facetious and I just totally whiffed it lol

 

[Ttamlin]

That's good oil. The price is on par with HPL's Premium Plus PCMO. The best oils are not cheap.

I'd also throw Motul in there, but availability of their products was proving troublesome when I landed on AMSOil. YMMV with being able to access that; online was all out of stock, and there aren't any speed shops nearby that clearly sold the stuff. AMSOil was readily available from their online shop, so they won!

 

[Ttamlin]

I genuinely appreciate that you've put time and effort into your decision making process. That is all I could ever hope for from anyone that reads my sometimes lengthy posts.

Lengthy, yes. But also full of information, and jumping-off points for people who want to learn.

 

[moving_target01]

That's good oil. The price is on par with HPL's Premium Plus PCMO. The best oils are not cheap.

I'm really curious how you landed on the Wix filter. What about it captured your money?

 

[moving_target01]

Do we really think that replacing the horn might make that big a difference? I ask for two reasons.

1) Because I hated the stock horn and replaced it with a dual-tone horn setup from PIAA, though I made no changes to how the electricity for the horn is supplied, just bridging the live and running ground through the mount (no new relays or anything).

2) Curious how swapping in a new horn would make that drastic a difference in how the engine management might work.

Of course, there's a strong possibility that you were being facetious and I just totally whiffed it lol

Replacing the horn is not a cause for concern. How the wiring is done is.

If someone did a not so great job of making sure the wiring was properly sealed and/or run in a path that would help to prevent grounding out onto the chassis, I could see an electrical fire starting.

I only bring this up as a possibility because the stock horn is pure trash, and it gets upgraded as quickly as a tank of fuel gets used.

I have no idea what someone might alter under the hood, so I'm not going to make any assumptions of what anyone might've done.

To be clear, I upgraded my horn to something with a bit more oomph (link below). So, I am by no means trying to shame anyone for doing that. I did make sure to use a few layers of electricians tape around every wire, crimp every wire (no solder as it can "unglue" itself with heat), and zip tie the tape in place so it wouldn't unravel. I also made sure that the new wires were not under any tension, and that the relay was securely bolted to the chassis.

Ear Cannon Air Horn

This is a full-power railroad locomotive/ocean liner type compressed air horn squeezed into a bike-mountable package. Totally overkill, until you need to wake up some lethal driver.

www.aerostich.com

I've only had to use my horn all of 3 times. I'll just say that every time that I've had to, the other driver reacted immediately, no matter how loud their music was. Although, I'm going to do similar to what I did with my former AW11 - I'm going to install 2 more horns, because that is how I am.

Admittedly, I had 4 horns in my former AW11, and HOLY SHIT did it get the job done. I had 2 of those ear cannon horns and 2 disc horns as well.

Model 300-2T Disc Horn™ 12-Volt, 115 Decibels, 360 Hz Two Terminal

<p>O.E. universal low tone disc horn, 12-volt, 2 terminal types. Ideal when, a new or replacement horn is needed for a car, motorcycle, truck or RV Painted steel construction, assures long life in all environments. Kit comes complete with a heavy-duty mou

wolo-mfg.com

Model 305-2T Disc Horn™ 12-Volt 115 Decibels 420 Hz Two Terminal

<p>O.E. universal high tone disc horn, 12-volt, 2 terminal type. Ideal when, a new or replacement horn is needed for a car, motorcycle, truck or RV Painted steel construction, assures long life in all environments. Kit comes complete with a heavy-du

wolo-mfg.com

Each horn was on it's own 60amp relay, and I used 8ga wiring, which all of that is overkill. It was fucking glorious!

As per my GR Corolla, I'll be adding a pair of Hella Supertone horns - again, high and low tone, and each on their own relay. I don't want a single volt of droppage, hence the 8ga wiring.

Anywho! I'm rambling.

 

[moving_target01]

Lengthy, yes. But also full of information, and jumping-off points for people who want to learn.

I do what I can to share my knowledge and experience. I was given huge amounts of information over the past 25 - some was just opinion, but plenty was really useful - and I feel an obligation to share what I've learned.

If you saw any of my old posts from when I would go on about suspension or brake tuning on my former AW11... It would make what I've posted here seem like the introduction.

 

[Jacques]

I'd also throw Motul in there, but availability of their products was proving troublesome when I landed on AMSOil. YMMV with being able to access that; online was all out of stock, and there aren't any speed shops nearby that clearly sold the stuff. AMSOil was readily available from their online shop, so they won!

AMSOIL Signature is better than Motul in my book. Good luck to you.

 

[moving_target01]

AMSOIL Signature is better than Motul in my book. Good luck to you.

I will not dispute that AMSOil SS is good. I do use that when money allows, but otherwise use something else.

I'll put this out in the open. I used to be (ie. no longer) an AMSOil dealer. That is really what pushed me onto the technical aspect of oil and filters (ie. fuck sales).

That said, if anyone wants AMSOil stuff, I have a preferred customer account (ie. I get $0.00 if 1 or 1000 orders are made through me, but YOU get the wholesale pricing) and I gladly gift my price to anyone wanting to buy their stuff.

 

[Jacques]

I will not dispute that AMSOil SS is good. I do use that when money allows, but otherwise use something else.

I'll put this out in the open. I used to be (ie. no longer) an AMSOil dealer. That is really what pushed me onto the technical aspect of oil and filters (ie. fuck sales).

That said, if anyone wants AMSOil stuff, I have a preferred customer account (ie. I get $0.00 if 1 or 1000 orders are made through me, but YOU get the wholesale pricing) and I gladly gift my price to anyone wanting to buy their stuff.

I like to stick to one oil, so I don't worry about additive battles.
For me it's HPL P+ PCMO all around in my GR, and the wife's Crown.

Premium Plus Passenger Car Engine Oil

High Performance Lubricants’ Premium Plus passenger car engine oil is a multi-synthetic high performance motor oil made with the best choices of additive chemistry. When compared with our other PCMO product lines this series takes advantage of high quality PAO delivering superb pour points as...

www.advlubrication.com

 

[Ttamlin]

Replacing the horn is not a cause for concern. How the wiring is done is.

If someone did a not so great job of making sure the wiring was properly sealed and/or run in a path that would help to prevent grounding out onto the chassis, I could see an electrical fire starting.

I only bring this up as a possibility because the stock horn is pure trash, and it gets upgraded as quickly as a tank of fuel gets used.

I have no idea what someone might alter under the hood, so I'm not going to make any assumptions of what anyone might've done.

To be clear, I upgraded my horn to something with a bit more oomph (link below). So, I am by no means trying to shame anyone for doing that. I did make sure to use a few layers of electricians tape around every wire, crimp every wire (no solder as it can "unglue" itself with heat), and zip tie the tape in place so it wouldn't unravel. I also made sure that the new wires were not under any tension, and that the relay was securely bolted to the chassis.

Ear Cannon Air Horn

This is a full-power railroad locomotive/ocean liner type compressed air horn squeezed into a bike-mountable package. Totally overkill, until you need to wake up some lethal driver.

www.aerostich.com

I've only had to use my horn all of 3 times. I'll just say that every time that I've had to, the other driver reacted immediately, no matter how loud their music was. Although, I'm going to do similar to what I did with my former AW11 - I'm going to install 2 more horns, because that is how I am.

Admittedly, I had 4 horns in my former AW11, and HOLY SHIT did it get the job done. I had 2 of those ear cannon horns and 2 disc horns as well.

Model 300-2T Disc Horn™ 12-Volt, 115 Decibels, 360 Hz Two Terminal

<p>O.E. universal low tone disc horn, 12-volt, 2 terminal types. Ideal when, a new or replacement horn is needed for a car, motorcycle, truck or RV Painted steel construction, assures long life in all environments. Kit comes complete with a heavy-duty mou

wolo-mfg.com

Model 305-2T Disc Horn™ 12-Volt 115 Decibels 420 Hz Two Terminal

<p>O.E. universal high tone disc horn, 12-volt, 2 terminal type. Ideal when, a new or replacement horn is needed for a car, motorcycle, truck or RV Painted steel construction, assures long life in all environments. Kit comes complete with a heavy-du

wolo-mfg.com

Each horn was on it's own 60amp relay, and I used 8ga wiring, which all of that is overkill. It was fucking glorious!

As per my GR Corolla, I'll be adding a pair of Hella Supertone horns - again, high and low tone, and each on their own relay. I don't want a single volt of droppage, hence the 8ga wiring.

Anywho! I'm rambling.

That's amazing! I've been eyeing those self-contained airhorns for a bit now. My buddy had a full-size "train horn" with the multiple trumpets and standalone air compressor on his Tacoma back in the day. That thing was BRUTAL to anyone outside the vehicle.

I landed on the PIAA dual-tone horns, in the "super bass" config. 330 and 400 Hz. Just swapped out the weedy old single-disc setup with these, using a dual-horn bracket posted on the GRC subreddit. I just re-used the OEM harness, using a y-splitter cable for power and some spare green stranded-core wire for ground. IDK if it's quite as loud as the OEM horn, but it sounds SO MUCH nicer, and still has gotten the job done. It's definitely not as loud as your config!

Wires are all tucked away nicely, and given that it's just the OEM power, it's not likely to have enough amperage to cause any sparks or anything. Hopefully!