[moving_target01]

That guy might want to do a bit of research.

Denso was formerly part of Toyota. It was separated so that Denso could make parts for other manufacturers... That is to say, profit beyond what just Toyota could generate.

"After becoming independent from Toyota Motor, the company was founded as Nippon Denso Co. Ltd."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denso

 

[moving_target01]

I used 5w30 on a +90F track day and the car felt sluggish. Could have been the ambient weather, or the 5w30. I don't know. I've since used 0w20 and I don't plan on tracking on days that are +90F anymore 😂

For track days, you'll want to go another weight class up. A 10w40 would be far better than a 5w30.

Oil lesson 1:

The first number on any/all oil packages detail the cold flow (winter) properties. The second number on any/all oil packages detail the ability to handle heat - the higher the number, the more it can withstand/deal with.

Beyond that, you'll want to find the results of the NOACK volatility tests, as that will detail the amount of oil that is burned off after 60 minutes at 250c.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noack_volatility_test

Next, the viscosity index is next most important detail to find. "The viscosity index (VI) of a lubricant is the rate of the viscosity change due to a temperature change." The higher your VI the better.

Understanding the viscosity index of a lubricant - Q8Oils

The viscosity of a lubricant has a big influence on the performance and long-life of your machinery. By selecting a lubricant with an appropriate viscosity index for your application, you can minimize downtime and maintenance costs.

www.q8oils.com

Lastly, for track days, I would strongly suggest a dedicated racing oil. I will do a track day (at least 1) after my engine is broken in. When I do that, this is the oil that I will run.

https://www.amsoil.com/p/amsoil-dominator-10w-40-100-synthetic-racing-oil-rd40/

I am not suggesting/promoting anyone do the same. I am saying, this is an option, and I would strongly suggest that you find oil from a manufacturer that you are more familiar/comfortable with that offers a similar type of racing oil.

Beyond that, once the track day is done, I would be doing a full oil change (oil and filter) back to my 'daily' stuff. Racing oils, due to their composition, will not be kind to your catalytic converter.

 

[OrionRunner]

Big thing I learned about oil today is 100% synthetic vs Full synthetic. Is it true that a full synthetic doesn't even have to be full synthetic call it that? I read that to legally call a oil full synthetic it just has to be 10% synthetic and then the rest could be a mineral oil. But isn't that just a synthetic blend? I know Mobile1, Vavoline, LiqiMoly, and Pennzoil admits this. That would mean the only true 100% synthetic would be Amsoil and Motul?

This just keeps getting more confusing.

 

[OrionRunner]

I break this down into 2 categories.

1. I need this in 2 days or less.

2. I will order everything 2 weeks in advance.

For the '2 days or less' I would go with:
Fram Ultra Synthetic filter
Pennzoil Ultra Platinum oil

For the 'ordering in advance' I would go with:
Fram Ultra Synthetic filter
AMSOil Signature Series oil

It cannot be ignored that AMSOil products do cost quite a bit more. Are they absolutely the better items to go with? The filter? No. The oil, yes.

The key details are that the Fram Ultra Synthetic captures more particulates, and smaller particulates than AMSOil does.

AMSOil has a much better result in regards to the NOACK volatility test (that determines how much oil burns off at high temperature, like inside the turbo).

https://www.grcorollaforum.com/threads/various-oil-filter-info.3605/

This thread goes into oil filter details.

https://www.grcorollaforum.com/threads/various-engine-oil-info.3607/

This thread goes into oil details.

One thing that caught my attention is that the oil filter from Amsoil is cheaper then Wix XP, Purolator Boss, Mobile1, and K&N. For my other vehicles the Amsoil was always the more expensive option. That doesn't seem ro be the case with the GR. It's $9.85 with membership.

 

[OrionRunner]

Also is Amsoil Signature also worth it if I'm doing my oil changes every 2,500-5,000. For a full oil change its $66 while if I went OE its $46. Is there a big enough difference to justify the $20 dollar difference. Signature has much better protection it says compared to OE but is that only at high mileage?

I know if I wanted to do Pennzoil Ultra Platunim with Purolator Boss filter its $56. I also see alot of people using Motul V300 but that oil is $46 for only 2L also it looks like MTN Dew for some reason. I was also thinking of Kirkland motor oil for 10QT for $39. But like DaleNixon said it might blow up my engine.

 

[doktorjak]

Also is Amsoil Signature also worth it if I'm doing my oil changes every 2,500-5,000. For a full oil change its $66 while if I went OE its $46. Is there a big enough difference to justify the $20 dollar difference. Signature has much better protection it says compared to OE but is that only at high mileage?

For Amsoil to make all the sense, you need to run it until it breaks down, which is a long time. I had a fully tuned STI years ago. The last Amsoil lab sample I sent to Blackstone for analysis had 10k miles on the OCI. Blackstone analyzed and told me the oil was fine and to go 12k miles for the next oil change. If you are running high quality fully synthetic oil you don’t need to change it at 2500-5000 miles.

 

[black86]

Crazy. Does that 10k include a track day too? I would to do 2 track days with my is300 on 5w30 but blackstone has given the ultra plat 0w20 the stamp of approval so I'll just keep it 1 track day per OCI 😂

 

[moving_target01]

Hahahaha. Just like what you’ve seen…. Anything about oil/oil filter, there will be different opinions.
some will say, “Toyota knows what they’re doing….”
Some will say, “you should run a better/heavier oil….”

if you don’t planning on tinker much by yourself, and want to keep warranty intact, “I” would run the recommended spec. If you’re sure you will mod as soon as possible, and can take care of most of the problem yourself or with a good friend, then do whatever you want.

Running a different oil brand/weight or oil filter will not void your warranty. That is due to the Magnuson Moss Act of 1975.

Businessperson's Guide to Federal Warranty Law

Table of ContentsState law (the Uniform Commercial Code). Sections 2-314 & 2-315. Section 2-313.Introduction For the full legal texts listed below, consult the supplement to this manual.Understanding the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act

www.ftc.gov

If you run a different oil or filter, it is on the manufacturer to prove conclusively that the failure was due to using a different product.

 

[moving_target01]

For Amsoil to make all the sense, you need to run it until it breaks down, which is a long time. I had a fully tuned STI years ago. The last Amsoil lab sample I sent to Blackstone for analysis had 10k miles on the OCI. Blackstone analyzed and told me the oil was fine and to go 12k miles for the next oil change. If you are running high quality fully synthetic oil you don’t need to change it at 2500-5000 miles.

Overall, I agree with your point. One thing that really needs to be taken into account is the NOACK results. If you have a vehicle with a turbo, you need to understand what percentage of oil will burn off, so that you can have an idea of how frequently you need to check your oil level.

Additionally, if you prefer the shorter drain intervals, AMSOil does offer the XL and OE spec of oils of those same weights. Those are not intended for long drain intervals, though there clearly is a price difference, I look at it this way:
What is more expensive in the long run? An oil change or getting the engine rebuilt/replaced?

 

[moving_target01]

One thing that caught my attention is that the oil filter from Amsoil is cheaper then Wix XP, Purolator Boss, Mobile1, and K&N. For my other vehicles the Amsoil was always the more expensive option. That doesn't seem ro be the case with the GR. It's $9.85 with membership.

Yeah, their pricing does not always make sense, but to their credit, the only time that I saw price increases was when getting the materials (base oil or additive package materials) costed them more.

Sadly though, I've seen them discontinue what I thought was a commonly used item - but, I'm not on their end watching order volume over time.

 

[moving_target01]

Big thing I learned about oil today is 100% synthetic vs Full synthetic. Is it true that a full synthetic doesn't even have to be full synthetic call it that? I read that to legally call a oil full synthetic it just has to be 10% synthetic and then the rest could be a mineral oil. But isn't that just a synthetic blend? I know Mobile1, Vavoline, LiqiMoly, and Pennzoil admits this. That would mean the only true 100% synthetic would be Amsoil and Motul?

This just keeps getting more confusing.

"Some define “100% synthetic” as motor oil made exclusively from Group IV polyalphaolefin (PAO) base oils. In contrast, they define “full synthetic” as an oil made from Group III base oils."

100% Synthetic Oil vs Full Synthetic Oil: What’s the Difference? - AMSOIL Blog

As long as a motor oil uses any combination of Group III, IV or V base oils, it can be labeled and marketed as a "synthetic" oil.

blog.amsoil.com

It is summarized later in that post, that it is accepted industry standards that any Group III, Group IV or Group V oil can be called either 'full synthetic' or '100% synthetic' - they are interchangeable.

The real difference is the base oil itself, and that is the true root of the question - "what are the properties of that oil?" and not so much "what does the label state/imply?"

As per a blend oil:

"Most blend oils will have a synthetic oil content varying from 10% to as much as 25%."

https://www.olympiajeep.com/compare-the-different-types-of-oil/

That is to state that a Group III oil is not a 'blend' oil, as Group III oils are accepted in the oil industry as full/100% synthetic.

 

[doktorjak]

Crazy. Does that 10k include a track day too? I would to do 2 track days with my is300 on 5w30 but blackstone has given the ultra plat 0w20 the stamp of approval so I'll just keep it 1 track day per OCI 😂

Yes. I usually do 2-3 HPDE per year, or used to. I’m bored with our local tracks. Only thing in the whole region I want to do anymore on my bikes or a car is COTA. I couldn’t believe that lab report. 10k miles and told me to keep going.

 

[OrionRunner]

Yes. I usually do 2-3 HPDE per year, or used to. I’m bored with our local tracks. Only thing in the whole region I want to do anymore on my bikes or a car is COTA. I couldn’t believe that lab report. 10k miles and told me to keep going.

The biggest thing that makes most high end oil stand out is the molybdenum and zinc. I ask a old school Toyota tech and he said for how much boost there is in the GR a high zinc count oil would be very necessary for 200k+ while driving hard. But it comes at the price of much more expensive oil. His top pick were Amsoil SS, Vavoline VR1, Mobile1, Driven D120 or XP2, and Motul 300V. For some reason he didn't mention LiquiMoly at all and said to stay away from it if it's not a European vehicle.

The only problem he also said to stick 0w20 until the warranty is up. So Amsoil and Motul are the only 2 who over high zinc 0w20. He also said dont go over 3,000 miles but hes old school. But my biggest concern is high zinc and molybdenum really important for turbo engines?

 

[moving_target01]

The biggest thing that makes most high end oil stand out is the molybdenum and zinc. I ask a old school Toyota tech and he said for how much boost there is in the GR a high zinc count oil would be very necessary for 200k+ while driving hard. But it comes at the price of much more expensive oil. His top pick were Amsoil SS, Vavoline VR1, Mobile1, Driven D120 or XP2, and Motul 300V. For some reason he didn't mention LiquiMoly at all and said to stay away from it if it's not a European vehicle.

The only problem he also said to stick 0w20 until the warranty is up. So Amsoil and Motul are the only 2 who over high zinc 0w20. He also said dont go over 3,000 miles but hes old school. But my biggest concern is high zinc and molybdenum really important for turbo engines?

ZDDP and Moly are anti-wear additives. They are present in oil to help limit/cease metal to metal contact. That is important within the turbo in so far as the shaft that connects the hot and cold side. In regards to the engine, its critical for any/all moving parts.

To the best of my knowledge, they have no impact in terms of dealing with heat or heat dissipation. That would by the task of your oil cooling system.

There is such a thing as too much ZDDP (not sure about Moly) as ZDDP will slowly clog your catalytic converter. The higher the ZDDP content, the faster this clogging occurs. That is why if you're going to run a racing oil, run it for that race, then change it back to your standard oil right after.

From what I've seen racing oils tend to run above 2000ppm of ZDDP (Royal Purple Max as high as 3000ppm), but a standard oil runs around 800ppm.

 

[doktorjak]

The biggest thing that makes most high end oil stand out is the molybdenum and zinc. I ask a old school Toyota tech and he said for how much boost there is in the GR a high zinc count oil would be very necessary for 200k+ while driving hard. But it comes at the price of much more expensive oil. His top pick were Amsoil SS, Vavoline VR1, Mobile1, Driven D120 or XP2, and Motul 300V. For some reason he didn't mention LiquiMoly at all and said to stay away from it if it's not a European vehicle.

The only problem he also said to stick 0w20 until the warranty is up. So Amsoil and Motul are the only 2 who over high zinc 0w20. He also said dont go over 3,000 miles but hes old school. But my biggest concern is high zinc and molybdenum really important for turbo engines?

Honestly trying to help you here so don’t take offense please..

You are way overthinking all of this. Use the weight of oil you feel works best for your geographic region and driving style. Pick the brand of oil you feel the most comfortable with, and be done with it. It’s not that big of a deal. I use Amsoil today because I’ve been using it for over 20 years and have done lab reports with it for over 20 years. I even run Amsoil in my Honda mower and weed eater. I run it because I can’t be bothered to change oil at X or Y time or miles. None of my gas vehicles are daily drivers. I use a cheap EV for that. Someone that is going to change the oil frequently etc, pick an oil brand that meets Toyota specifications. Use the weight they recommend if you are a warranty Nancy. But there is Magnuson Moss. Hell at 3k mile OCI, get whatever meets the mfr’s requirements in the manual that is the cheapest price or best deal. 3k OCI is from the Dino days Btw. Not with full synth. You’re just wasting money and wasting oil. Lower cost, readily available, that you are going to change quicker, go look at post #6 in the thread. Run that and be done with it.

 

[Kaotic Lazagna]

For Amsoil to make all the sense, you need to run it until it breaks down, which is a long time. I had a fully tuned STI years ago. The last Amsoil lab sample I sent to Blackstone for analysis had 10k miles on the OCI. Blackstone analyzed and told me the oil was fine and to go 12k miles for the next oil change. If you are running high quality fully synthetic oil you don’t need to change it at 2500-5000 miles.

I get no where near the mileage intervals. I know I'm probably wasting good oil, but I change my Amsoil once a year. Shoot, for my garage queen, I changed it at around 400 miles only since it had been 13 months. HAHA. This reminds me, I should order more.

 

[OrionRunner]

Honestly trying to help you here so don’t take offense please..

You are way overthinking all of this. Use the weight of oil you feel works best for your geographic region and driving style. Pick the brand of oil you feel the most comfortable with, and be done with it. It’s not that big of a deal. I use Amsoil today because I’ve been using it for over 20 years and have done lab reports with it for over 20 years. I even run Amsoil in my Honda mower and weed eater. I run it because I can’t be bothered to change oil at X or Y time or miles. None of my gas vehicles are daily drivers. I use a cheap EV for that. Someone that is going to change the oil frequently etc, pick an oil brand that meets Toyota specifications. Use the weight they recommend if you are a warranty Nancy. But there is Magnuson Moss. Hell at 3k mile OCI, get whatever meets the mfr’s requirements in the manual that is the cheapest price or best deal. 3k OCI is from the Dino days Btw. Not with full synth. You’re just wasting money and wasting oil. Lower cost, readily available, that you are going to change quicker, go look at post #6 in the thread. Run that and be done with it.

Yay, your probably right. I'm in college right now and my professors preaches about getting the best oil and changing every 3000 mile. But the more I think about it your probably right. If I want better oil I should have longer intervals. If I want shorter intervals buy cheaper oil. I probably just gonna do 5000 to save some money right now and uses all my Toyota care. After toyota care I might uses Amsoil OE just because my father has the membership. But I also looked at Kirkland oil which is 10 quarts for $40 which seems like a steal. The oil doesn't seem too bad and the same company that makes Supertech and Amazon Basic makes it. IDK I just have to pick one and be done.

 

[doktorjak]

I get no where near the mileage intervals. I know I'm probably wasting good oil, but I change my Amsoil once a year. Shoot, for my garage queen, I changed it at around 400 miles only since it had been 13 months. HAHA. This reminds me, I should order more.

I do 2 years honestly. I mean at OCI I’ll get a sample and send it off to the lab for verification but I‘ve been doing this so long where I always keep an eye on my sight glasses on my sportbikes. Each has one. As long as the oil still looks new or good I’m not bothering. I used to let it get a little darker then drain it, get a sample, and send it in, on those feel goods. Blackstone would just break my balls “Oil was still fine in this sample” IE, you’re a dumb A wasting your time, money, and expensive oil. Use determines OCI, nothing else unless it sits outside where hydro comes into play. If it’s garage kept you’re pretty safe. I mean safe as a box of kittens. All my bikes the engine and clutch sit in the same oil. Oil shearing, on a high powered literbike, is much the same as a turbo car. If you want to mess with it less, use top grade stuff so you don’t have to worry about it. I’ve seen cases split open on engines that used high quality synth and the motor looked near new at 100k miles. Use good stuff, and do lower OCI’s in the beginning until you know what’s what. If your driving is consistent, including track days, shorter intervals until you figure it out. Over time you’ll know when to change it, exactly, with lab reports not old wives tales or OEM this and that. That includes up North where it’s cold AF all winter, or the desert in AZ or Cali. Extreme weather can cause quicker OCI. Again, the lab.

Toyota put “5k miles” in this manual for this car for litigation mitigation. Bean counters concerned with some jethro doing doughnuts, beating the car senseless all the time and not just Toyota, all mfr’s try to keep warranty issues at a minimum so they write manuals to cover their A. It’s a sporting type vehicle so all they are doing that in the manual, is to play it safe. Lab reports > OEM recommendations. I’ve never even been concerned with potential warranty crap. Good luck in court with an owner who has receipts, lab reports that are penitentiary steel. It’s never come up for me. Cars, trucks, sportbikes, and watercraft, as in ever. And I mod all my shat, tunes, flashed ECU’s, FBO’s, name it. A lot of this industry is designed to get more money out of your wallet via a service bay at $120-150 per hour labor.

 

[Kaotic Lazagna]

I do 2 years honestly. I mean at OCI I’ll get a sample and send it off to the lab for verification but I‘ve been doing this so long where I always keep an eye on my sight glasses on my sportbikes. Each has one. As long as the oil still looks new or good I’m not bothering. I used to let it get a little darker then drain it, get a sample, and send it in, on those feel goods. Blackstone would just break my balls “Oil was still fine in this sample” IE, you’re a dumb A wasting your time, money, and expensive oil. Use determines OCI, nothing else unless it sits outside where hydro comes into play. If it’s garage kept you’re pretty safe. I mean safe as a box of kittens. All my bikes the engine and clutch sit in the same oil. Oil shearing, on a high powered literbike, is much the same as a turbo car. If you want to mess with it less, use top grade stuff so you don’t have to worry about it. I’ve seen cases split open on engines that used high quality synth and the motor looked near new at 100k miles. Use good stuff, and do lower OCI’s in the beginning until you know what’s what. If your driving is consistent, including track days, shorter intervals until you figure it out. Over time you’ll know when to change it, exactly, with lab reports not old wives tales or OEM this and that. That includes up North where it’s cold AF all winter, or the desert in AZ or Cali. Extreme weather can cause quicker OCI. Again, the lab.

Toyota put “5k miles” in this manual for this car for litigation mitigation. Bean counters concerned with some jethro doing doughnuts, beating the car senseless all the time and not just Toyota, all mfr’s try to keep warranty issues at a minimum so they write manuals to cover their A. It’s a sporting type vehicle so all they are doing that in the manual, is to play it safe. Lab reports > OEM recommendations. I’ve never even been concerned with potential warranty crap. Good luck in court with an owner who has receipts, lab reports that are penitentiary steel. It’s never come up for me. Cars, trucks, sportbikes, and watercraft, as in ever. And I mod all my shat, tunes, flashed ECU’s, FBO’s, name it. A lot of this industry is designed to get more money out of your wallet via a service bay at $120-150 per hour labor.

Back when I used to commute around 24k miles a year, I'd actually change the oil at 15k (not sure why Toyotas have lower intervals for Amsoil).

I don't commute that much anymore. Shoot, my commute is 4.5 miles or so, and my oil barely gets up to operating temp by the time I reach work in the morning. So even tho I'm not racking up the miles, I think it might still be a good idea to change the GRC oil once a year given the type of miles the oil is getting.

 

[NuBieGRCorolla]

There is a dude on Reddit who drives like 50,000+ miles a year…. I’d love to see what he runs on….