[penny]

So was there an issue with the dyno or maybe the DAT car itself? Is there that much drivetrain loss compared to the manual version?

 

[forth_and_back]

Something I felt was a little misleading was saying the mechanical drivetrain feel and consistency only came into play at 10/10ths driving. I can definitely feel the lsd’s during daily driving and personally I really like them. They add a lot of dynamics to the car at low speed as well

 

[MYount]

So was there an issue with the dyno or maybe the DAT car itself? Is there that much drivetrain loss compared to the manual version?

LOL - read the thread....

 

[caconym]

I'm not really adding anything new to what's already been said above, but here's my take:

I think the review misses the mark in several ways. I have a GRC and I'm an admitted fan boy, so bias level is high here! But I absolutely love mine, I think it's one of, if not the most fun and rewarding daily driver car I've had (and I've had many). I just can't agree with SG's opinion that "it's not even close." Here's why:

1. Overall I think this comparison pits strength against weakness: The DSG is a strength for the R, against the weaker transmission choice for the GRC. I also don't think it makes sense to choose the highest spec Premium Plus GRC. The GRC's strength is NOT in the interior do dads and "luxuries" that are offered in the premium plus. It's strength is the chassis and drive train shared with all trim levels. So put a core with performance pack (maybe that's gone now in 2025 and they all have F+R diffs?) and a manual against a Golf R and much of the support for their conclusions crumbles. In that comparison the Golf is $10k more (25% more expensive than the GRC!), the GRC closes the power gap a bit, and the fun factor of the GRC (it's strength) is WAY up. That's the right comparo.

2. It's interesting to me that that the SG boys are very much an outlier in their consistent dislike of the GRC. Many of the dislikes they point out are the same as those highlighted by other journalists and youtubers (in other words, they are legit gripes/issues), but with the same inputs, they consistently arrive at the conclusion that it's a product they don't like, whereas the other reviews I have read/watched consistently conclude that it's the most fun you can have on the market for a tick over $40k. Which riffs off my prior point that the real comparison here is a $40k car against a $49k car.

3. These reviews must drive car manufacturers nuts. The journalists harp on about: driver engagement over horsepower; save the manual trans; real buttons not screens; the crime against humanity that is piano black; and generally focusing on enjoyment over numbers. So Toyota delivers a spicy little three banger filled with engagement and character that's a bit down on power and ditches the fancy interior for some really useful buttons, and these guys crap all over it! What happened to: it's all about driver engagement?

4. They barely touch on the character of the engines, and the character of the cars generally. The Golf R is an incredibly efficient way to deliver performance numbers. It's really handsome but undeniably bland. Come on, you aren't once going to mention how much more fun it is to ring out the little three banger with 21 lbs of boost than yet one more 2 liter turbo four? No criticism of the lack of the manual? I've heard these guys consistently say they don't need faster cars, they want more engaging cars. That 2 liter turbo fours are just boring, not matter how much power they pump. And piano black, don't even get them started on piano black. So what gives here? Suddenly the additional speed in the straights is a difference maker and the physical button in the GR are just, meh?

I don't know why SG thinks so lowly of the GRC, but I can't agree.

Dyno results and questions about power loss in the DAT aside, the SG videos about the GRC have a weird undercurrent of negativity that never actually seems to materialize in concrete criticism of the car. When I watch this video, I see them describing a $40k bonafide "driver's car" and a $50k entry-level luxury sports car that substitutes brake torque vectoring and electronic trickery for what the former car does mechanically and far more predictably. They seem to have fun driving the GRC and say a lot of good things about it, and their complaints are generally fair IMO and not framed in a sensationalist way.

It seems like a cop-out to call it snobbery, but maybe it's just snobbery? It's funny because I enjoy their perspective on the GRC when they actually start talking about it, but it seems like they just can't help themselves when the perspective pulls back and the car is reduced to a make and model.

All part of their shtick, I guess.

 

[VT_CRC]

If you look at the reviewers that gravitate towards the GRC more, they tend to live in areas with more frequent elevation changes. They live in IL. SG seemly doesn't take that into account, so they just drive it around flat ass Autobahn raceway, whatever the hell that's suppose to be as a marker for the car. No wonder they harp on it, they live in an area that more FWD bias area would be acceptable.

Right on. One of the main reasons I bought a GRC rather than a Golf R. Well, mostly it was the horrible MK8 interior. But I certainly love the feel of the 50/50 split on the GRC better than how my old Golf R felt.

 

[WellsB]

Something I felt was a little misleading was saying the mechanical drivetrain feel and consistency only came into play at 10/10ths driving. I can definitely feel the lsd’s during daily driving and personally I really like them. They add a lot of dynamics to the car at low speed as well

I agree. The GRC is a driver's car throughout.

 

[DylanJZA]

So was there an issue with the dyno or maybe the DAT car itself? Is there that much drivetrain loss compared to the manual version?

Its just a really inefficient transmission sadly. Modern sport ATs like the ZF8 only lose around 5% more power vs their MT counterpart. The DAT apparently loses 15% more which is tbh kinda wild...

 

[Rustler]

I made the same comment about the "wrap up" review of the green GRC:

Their reviews/experience with this car seems to focus on track work. That may be justified given Toyota's emphasis on track prowess in its initial marketing. Toyota invited it. But I think Toyota made a mistake in that regard. It should have played up the rally inspired hot hatch usability in real life, which I think is the biggest strength of the car. I very much agree with a comment above that it might explain their point of view to put it in the context in which they've used the GRC: Mostly track work, and outside of that, dry, flat Illinois roads.

This car is the most accessible fun I've ever experienced on snow packed or wet mountain roads. I had a CTR here in Montana for a while, and when the roads were dry and warm it was absolutely awesome. Brilliant. But the other 360 days a year the GRC or Golf R would leave it for road kill. And again its not surprising that on the flat and mostly straight roads and the track they frequent the Golf R, a more refined car with a wonderful DCT auto and quite a bit more power, has obvious advantages.

I really like SGs reviews. I like the snark and sarcasm (and think they've gotten away from that a bit). But given how well I know the GRC and its qualities, they've either missed the plot with the GRC, or have an ulterior motive (like click bait).

 

[MYount]

On the test drive with my wife she said - "Springs and shocks are too stiff and it's too loud." I went back to the dealer and said "I'll take it." Now, she doesn't like to go in my car.

 

[WellsB]

I made the same comment about the "wrap up" review of the green GRC:

Their reviews/experience with this car seems to focus on track work. That may be justified given Toyota's emphasis on track prowess in its initial marketing. Toyota invited it. But I think Toyota made a mistake in that regard. It should have played up the rally inspired hot hatch usability in real life, which I think is the biggest strength of the car. I very much agree with a comment above that it might explain their point of view to put it in the context in which they've used the GRC: Mostly track work, and outside of that, dry, flat Illinois roads.

This car is the most accessible fun I've ever experienced on snow packed or wet mountain roads. I had a CTR here in Montana for a while, and when the roads were dry and warm it was absolutely awesome. Brilliant. But the other 360 days a year the GRC or Golf R would leave it for road kill. And again its not surprising that on the flat and mostly straight roads and the track they frequent the Golf R, a more refined car with a wonderful DCT auto and quite a bit more power, has obvious advantages.

I really like SGs reviews. I like the snark and sarcasm (and think they've gotten away from that a bit). But given how well I know the GRC and its qualities, they've either missed the plot with the GRC, or have an ulterior motive (like click bait).

Yeah, the GRC really comes alive on canyon-roads. I actually look forward to rain as the GRC doesn't care and there are fewer people on the road.

If one doesn't have those kinds of roads nearby, I could see not being as impressed. Thankfully, I'm only 15 minutes away from the start of great roads.

 

[MYount]

On the test drive with my wife she said - "Springs and shocks are too stiff and it's too loud." I went back to the dealer and said "I'll take it." Now, she doesn't like to go in my car.

Full disclosure - in between "too stiff, too loud" and "I'll take it" she said "Of course, if YOU like it, then none of that matters." We celebrated our 51st on April 12th. I hope she keeps keeping me around.

 

[grcorolla66]

On the test drive with my wife she said - "Springs and shocks are too stiff and it's too loud." I went back to the dealer and said "I'll take it." Now, she doesn't like to go in my car.

Me too! Hopefully we don't have the same wife ... I proceeded to get a louder exhaust.

 

[MYount]

Me too! Hopefully we don't have the same wife ... I proceeded to get a louder exhaust.

Ha - we ALL have the same wife my friend.

 

[SpaceFolding]

Most likely SG doesn't even know a dyno mode exists for GR Corolla. Does anyone know if numbers look whack because it wasn't in dyno mode?

How To Properly Dyno a GR Corolla [for consistent...

From everything I've read and seen, the GR Yaris had inconsistent dyno numbers from back to back runs on the dyno. They were also able to solve the issue. Let's figure out if that's the same case for the GR Corolla, and how to dyno it correctly for consistent numbers. Being AWD, this can be a...

www.grcorollaforum.com

 

[DylanJZA]

Most likely SG doesn't even know a dyno mode exists for GR Corolla. Does anyone know if numbers look whack because it wasn't in dyno mode?

How To Properly Dyno a GR Corolla [for consistent...

From everything I've read and seen, the GR Yaris had inconsistent dyno numbers from back to back runs on the dyno. They were also able to solve the issue. Let's figure out if that's the same case for the GR Corolla, and how to dyno it correctly for consistent numbers. Being AWD, this can be a...

www.grcorollaforum.com

They had Limit+1 run the dyno (arguably the most prolific GR shop in the US, specifically for the Corolla).

 

[Jacques]

They had Limit+1 run the dyno (arguably the most prolific GR shop in the US, specifically for the Corolla).

You would think they would know. That's a complicated set up!
I gotta' save that video.

 

[wheelhaus]

You would think they would know. That's a complicated set up!
I gotta' save that video.

Reminds me of a similar procedure using the brake and handbrake for the 86 colloquially called the "pedal dance." Some very specific conditions on track would trigger VSC to intervene even if everything was turned off (akin to Expert+ for the GRC). Trail braking over very particular apexes over a slight crest could potentially cause the system to intervene when it shouldn't and it risked dangerously upsetting the car. The pedal dance eliminated everything but ABS, so for many it became the go-to procedure before heading out for hot laps on certain tracks.

 

[Jacques]

Reminds me of a similar procedure using the brake and handbrake for the 86 colloquially called the "pedal dance." Some very specific conditions on track would trigger VSC to intervene even if everything was turned off (akin to Expert+ for the GRC). Trail braking over very particular apexes over a slight crest could potentially cause the system to intervene when it shouldn't and it risked dangerously upsetting the car. The pedal dance eliminated everything but ABS, so for many it became the go-to procedure before heading out for hot laps on certain tracks.

I am using the long press of the traction button for autocross, and the MY25 track mode.
It's pretty good.
Next time I'm going to try the same with gravel (50-50) mode.
My understanding was that the long press when the "expert" light goes off, was supposed to be the mode for ABS only, which cannot be defeated anyway, and who would want to defeat ABS anyway.
I don't think I would try to run in AWD test mode. What do you think?

 

[MYount]

I am using the long press of the traction button for autocross, and the MY25 track mode.
It's pretty good.
Next time I'm going to try the same with gravel (50-50) mode.
My understanding was that the long press when the "expert" light goes off, was supposed to be the mode for ABS only, which cannot be defeated anyway, and who would want to defeat ABS anyway.
I don't think I would try to run in AWD test mode. What do you think?

LOL - I was happy just to be able to get the dash to display the 'gauges' that I wanted. This is a great example of me laughing at myself - I have no idea what's being talked about here. And probably don't want to know.

 

[wheelhaus]

I am using the long press of the traction button for autocross, and the MY25 track mode.
It's pretty good.
Next time I'm going to try the same with gravel (50-50) mode.
My understanding was that the long press when the "expert" light goes off, was supposed to be the mode for ABS only, which cannot be defeated anyway, and who would want to defeat ABS anyway.
I don't think I would try to run in AWD test mode. What do you think?

AWD test most is FWD only for dyno testing from what I understand, I wouldn't want to use it for much beyond troubleshooting and getting consistent dyno readings. Fortunately I haven't heard of any funky nanny intervention with the GRC as long as it's in Expert+ mode. It seems to be genuinely disabled.