[kingofthehill29]

View attachment 28938

Thanks for the tip, I drained both fluids before pulling the CV axles.

Mine was done on a lift. I did not remove my subframe. I loosened it just enough to sneak the trans past it. It wasn't easy.

Wish I still had access to a lift. Well I am attempting it with jackstands. Good thing I have a set of 4 that can be adjusted to 30" off the ground and a jack that can easily lift 36" off the ground. It seems to me you can disconnect transfer case and leave it off to side to avoid dropping the subframe or you could drop subframe then leave transfer case attached. Is this a true statement?

 

[Raaaaay]

I think the transfer case can stay attached? I do remember it being a pain to remove due to a bolt or stud that is installed from a very hard to get to area.

I can't fully remember? I had a tech at work do it.

 

[kingofthehill29]

Does anyone know the torque specs for the Clutch pressure plate bolts (I have the torque pattern from the service manual). The torque spec that is listed in the service manual is 14 ft*lbs which seems a bit low to me. Can anyone verify if this is indeed correct or not?

 

[wheelhaus]

If it's in the service manual, that's what everyone will use for reference. What size thread are the bolts, and are they going into aluminum?

If you're referring to an aftermarket clutch, then it might use different hardware or different materials, and possibly a different torque spec.

edit- blue threadlock will be your friend.

 

[kingofthehill29]

If it's in the service manual, that's what everyone will use for reference. What size thread are the bolts, and are they going into aluminum?

If you're referring to an aftermarket clutch, then it might use different hardware or different materials, and possibly a different torque spec.

edit- blue threadlock will be your friend.

flywheel is steel, pressure plate bolts are m8-1.25. It is an aftermarket Xclutch upgrade that retains factory DMF.

 

[wheelhaus]

Torque really depends on the faster size, bolt grade, and substrate material. After some quick research I saw some Tacoma boards talking about 14 ft-lbs being in the manual but feeling too light, and they just used blue loctite. Some paranoid owners went red, but they were warned it's not a good idea.

Check it against the listings here, for the metric part it shows the value for in-lbs up to M10, then larger bolts show ft-lbs. 14ft-lbs is 168 in-lbs, which matches up with a M8x1.25 grade 8.8 at K-0.15 friction coefficient. The K reference is in the lower right corner.

https://www.fastenal.com/content/merch_rules/images/fcom/content-library/Torque-Tension%20Reference%20Guide.pdf

 

[kingofthehill29]

Torque really depends on the faster size, bolt grade, and substrate material. After some quick research I saw some Tacoma boards talking about 14 ft-lbs being in the manual but feeling too light, and they just used blue loctite. Some paranoid owners went red, but they were warned it's not a good idea.

Check it against the listings here, for the metric part it shows the value for in-lbs up to M10, then larger bolts show ft-lbs. 14ft-lbs is 168 in-lbs, which matches up with a M8x1.25 grade 8.8 at K-0.15 friction coefficient. The K reference is in the lower right corner.

https://www.fastenal.com/content/merch_rules/images/fcom/content-library/Torque-Tension%20Reference%20Guide.pdf

Bolts provided with x clutch kit are grade 10.9. I also verified through two other sources that the required torque for this kit is 26 ft*lb (312 in*lb). According to packaging it states "Only use threadlocker on Flywheel to Crank Bolts". Therefor Xclutch wants these bolts installed dry. According to your document the dry torque for grade 10.9 bolts is 323 in*lbs MAX. The recommended torque spec by X clutch Exceeds the threadlocker Max torque and is below the Max for the dry install. Therefore it is safe to assume 26 ft*lb (312 in*lb) is correct and no threadlocker is to be used. It should also be noted the kit came with some aggressive locking washers.

Thanks Wheelhaus, your info helped me verify the spec provided by Xclutch. I now feel comfortable with the information I have and will proceed with the next step of installing my new clutch. This has definitely been a long job, I have been taking my time and got the transmission out last night. Stock clutch and flywheel are in great shape, I believe they could go to 50k miles or more on the stock tune. I have been documenting everything and want to help put together a guide for future use if anyone is interested. I've been going at this blind and learning a lot along the way.

 

[wheelhaus]

Nice, glad it's sorted. The devil is in the details, so kudos to you for ironing out the discrepancies. A clutch isn't something you want to have lingering questions. Especially on a transverse AWD platform, lol. Keep us posted on your thoughts on the X-Clutch kit. I've been hearing good things about their stuff.

I suggested blue loctite because it's something I saw virtually everywhere when I was doing similar research for my 86 clutch. Similarly even with the supercharger, the OE clutch disc at 70k miles (10k supercharged) it was perfectly fine. I was only doing the clutch because the TOB shit the bed. So, as you do, just do everything. Anyways, all the clutch replacement best practices and anecdotes I was finding recommended a bit of blue on every bolt as cheap insurance, but I think it was required for the fw/crank.

 

[Madscientist]

So, as you do, just do everything.

That is how a MK4 DMF flywheel and front left wheel bearing job turns into flywheel, clutch, TOB, axles, both front bearings, new tie rods (inner/outer), turbo, struts/springs all around, ball joints, bushings.... All to be done in 3 days, solo, on jackstands.

How many times have you said, "While I'm in there..."

 

[CallSign:Goose]

I've said this before and I'll say it again.

New GRC pressure plate and flywheel is machined with ridges. It is not a smooth flat surfaces. You must absolutely wear it in at least 5-10k so the ridges are flat before wailing on it. The reason why there are so many failures is because everyone is sending it when you only have less than 50% of the surface area. This is from a warranty'd clutch. Look at the clean surface closer to the middle. That's what you have to work in. This failure was at about 2k. Half of the clutch surface hasn't even touched the flywheel yet.

Is it a design oversight? Probably. Is it avoidable? Absolutely.

View attachment 24392

View attachment 24393

Just picked mine up, only 700 miles and BABIED this thing thus far. no more than 1-2lb of accidental boost, no more than 4200rpm. It's been an effort to keep this break in period as good as possible.

I've been driving manual cars since 1999, road racer and weekend manual driver. I was aware of the concerns and have made very conscious efforts to keep from slipping the clutch. Sure enough this morning I smelled it twice, once off a slight incline and once moving from slow to faster traffic lane. Super bummed and going to let the dealership know so I have evidence on file. Car was an allocation, never touched the lot and had single digit miles on it on delivery so there was no foul play prior.

Curious @st165 if you could confirm the manufacturer of the clutch assembly? Is it Exedy? Aisin?

 

[CallSign:Goose]

So, I have a deposit down on a Blue Flame Circuit Edition. Reading this thread is definitely giving me cause for concern. Anyone with a '24 experiencing the same issue? I am highly experienced with manuals. Unfortunately, I am coming from one of the best ever made in a Civic Type R. I don't expect it to compare, but I have little interest in needing to replace a clutch due to shotty materials and/or design.

just smelled mine today, but still seems functional.

 

[st165]

It's been an effort to keep this break in period as good as possible.

Curious @st165 if you could confirm the manufacturer of the clutch assembly? Is it Exedy? Aisin?

Luk.

Toyota has only had two brands used in the past 40-50 years, Aisin and Luk. Typically single mass flywheel setups use Aisin clutches, dual mass flywheel setups use Luk clutches. But this is not a rule, just the pattern on the majority of toyota models.

Whatever you do, coming from someone who's worked at two different Toyota dealers, for the love of god do not put any Exedy product on Toyotas. They do not know how to make a clutch for Toyotas and the stupid holders for the clutch disc springs always break and the springs pop out, destroy flywheels and pressure plates with it.

Also, for what it's worth, I'm at 14k km now, 3 track days. I use full boost starting from 1000km, but I never launch or power shift. Only get into power once you're fully engaged on the clutch. No signs of slipping, no smells, no weird behaviour. It grabs hard.

 

[CallSign:Goose]

Luk.

Toyota has only had two brands used in the past 40-50 years, Aisin and Luk. Typically single mass flywheel setups use Aisin clutches, dual mass flywheel setups use Luk clutches. But this is not a rule, just the pattern on the majority of toyota models.

Whatever you do, coming from someone who's worked at two different Toyota dealers, for the love of god do not put any Exedy product on Toyotas. They do not know how to make a clutch for Toyotas and the stupid holders for the clutch disc springs always break and the springs pop out, destroy flywheels and pressure plates with it.

Also, for what it's worth, I'm at 14k km now, 3 track days. I use full boost starting from 1000km, but I never launch or power shift. Only get into power once you're fully engaged on the clutch. No signs of slipping, no smells, no weird behaviour. It grabs hard.

thanks for the quick insight!

 

[Ital]

is the issue with both 2023 and 2024?
Mine is a 2024 and it has been good, knock on wood, about 7k miles and one track day
I do not launch, but I also do not down shift when accelerating in 6th gear
No smells or signs of it slipping.... I hope it stays that way. I do not plan to mod\tune for that main reason.
I did do one power shift from 1st to 2nd once and I heard a loud bang and it scared the crap out of me and never did it again...

 

[sm0keyyy]

Don't our clutch has a self-adjusting design that pushes the clutch when it start to wear down? Does that make pre-mature wear if you keep launching it again and again since the sping keep feeding metals to wear?

I forgot about that. Sounded like it’s always putting a little bit of pressure on it

 

[wheelhaus]

is the issue with both 2023 and 2024?
Mine is a 2024 and it has been good, knock on wood, about 7k miles and one track day
I do not launch, but I also do not down shift when accelerating in 6th gear
No smells her signs of it slipping.... I hope it stays that way. I do not plan to mod\tune for that main reason.
I did do one power shift from 1st to 2nd once and I heard a loud bang and it scared the crap out of me and never did it again...

Yes, I don't believe the clutch design changed at all from 23-24. Clutch complaints like this is something I've seen on literally every car forum I've ever been a part of for the last 20 years. The consensus is that the GRC clutch, due to LUK's ridged/grooved design, can slip and burn/glaze easily when in early miles. Getting a smell a few times under 3k miles from normal driving is common, but its not indicative of failure. It does slowly break in and become smooth, and feels better as it progresses, but some estimates put that upwards of 10-20k miles to completely break in depending on usage. It's perfectly fine to slip the clutch, that's what it's designed for. However, slipping at high rpm differences, with high load (such as a high rpm launch, or trying to reverse up a really steep hill very slowly by slipping) is when the clutch can quickly overheat and shit the bed. Keep the slipping rpm differences small, and let it fully engage relatively quickly (picture 2-3 seconds at most), clutch will be happy.

You can downshift in any gear whenever you want so long as the engine rpm is reasonable, but you should rev match, or use iMT (which rev matches for you). There's no reason to just sit in 6th to accelerate just to avoid clutch damage. Rev match, drop a gear or two, and go ham.

The clunk you heard was probably a drivetrain bushing (rear diff or engine pitch most likely) just bumping against its stop. Nothing to be paranoid about.

That said, mine is at 7500 miles and feels fantastic, and I occasionally launch lightly, and am constantly shifting and rev matching.

 

[Ital]

Yes, I don't believe the clutch design changed at all from 23-24. Clutch complaints like this is something I've seen on literally every car forum I've ever been a part of for the last 20 years. The consensus is that the GRC clutch, due to LUK's ridged/grooved design, can slip and burn/glaze easily when in early miles. Getting a smell a few times under 3k miles from normal driving is common, but its not indicative of failure. It does slowly break in and become smooth, and feels better as it progresses, but some estimates put that upwards of 10-20k miles to completely break in depending on usage. It's perfectly fine to slip the clutch, that's what it's designed for. However, slipping at high rpm differences, with high load (such as a high rpm launch, or trying to reverse up a really steep hill very slowly by slipping) is when the clutch can quickly overheat and shit the bed. Keep the slipping rpm differences small, and let it fully engage relatively quickly (picture 2-3 seconds at most), clutch will be happy.

You can downshift in any gear whenever you want so long as the engine rpm is reasonable, but you should rev match, or use iMT (which rev matches for you). There's no reason to just sit in 6th to accelerate just to avoid clutch damage. Rev match, drop a gear or two, and go ham.

The clunk you heard was probably a drivetrain bushing (rear diff or engine pitch most likely) just bumping against its stop. Nothing to be paranoid about.

That said, mine is at 7500 miles and feels fantastic, and I occasionally launch lightly, and am constantly shifting and rev matching.

I've been drving stick for 30 years and never had a clutch fail on me until my 2016 GTI. At 2k miles in 4th under hard acceleration it started to slip (that was a bad experience and I hated the clutch replacement even more)
I accelerate in 6th without downshifting because I am lazy, it is not to safe guard the clutch, it actually the opposite as I am putting more load on the clutch... down shifting would be better for it...
I was just pointing out even with the load no slippage... good way to monitor it for me as well. Thank you for the reply.
I was hoping the 2024 they had made improvements. Now the 2025 are coming out with more torque.
It makes me wonder if they made the clutch stronger now.

 

[Kuro5ake]

is the issue with both 2023 and 2024?
Mine is a 2024 and it has been good, knock on wood, about 7k miles and one track day
I do not launch, but I also do not down shift when accelerating in 6th gear
No smells or signs of it slipping.... I hope it stays that way. I do not plan to mod\tune for that main reason.
I did do one power shift from 1st to 2nd once and I heard a loud bang and it scared the crap out of me and never did it again...

It's all 23s and 24s with a build date of February '24 and prior. Toyota updated the part number for the clutch starting March of '24. This is found on post #72 on the "Clutch break-in" thread. (Don't know how to link to specific posts)

 

[John]

It's all 23s and 24s with a build date of February '24 and prior. Toyota updated the part number for the clutch starting March of '24. This is found on post #72 on the "Clutch break-in" thread. (Don't know how to link to specific posts)

Damn.. Just checked mine and it's 02/2024 😩😩

 

[wheelhaus]

It's all 23s and 24s with a build date of February '24 and prior. Toyota updated the part number for the clutch starting March of '24. This is found on post #72 on the "Clutch break-in" thread. (Don't know how to link to specific posts)

That is correct however there's no evidence that there's any difference in the part's design yet. Manufacturer part numbers can change for a multitude of reasons, so until there's some evidence that the clutch lining or the pressure plate design has changed specifically to address a perceived slipping problem, I wouldn't presume that a new part number means any specific concern has been addressed. So far, it's just a part number change.