[SXTH Element Engineering]

Thanks for having us! My name is Mark and I'm co-owner and engineer here at SXTH Element Engineering.

We are excited to get into a new platform coming from our KDM roots.
For those not familiar, we are an aftermarket brand for mainly Kia/Hyundai along with special focus on N and N-Line models.

www.sxthelement.com

Until we can get our hands on a car, we'd love for someone near Spartanburg, SC to come visit us for some in person measuring, inspection and 3D scanning.
We compensate for time with the car and travel on top of either free or heavily discounted finished pre-production prototypes.

On top of making some solid hardware like we do for N cars like intakes/intercoolers, etc we are also working on ECU reading and writing thru OBD with our EK1 Lite, which is our version of a device like the AccessPort.

I will do my best to stay on top of news here, but if anyone needs anything the best way to reach me is by emailing [email protected]

Thanks!

Pic for attention!

 

[GRMcFly]

Welcome to the forums. Excited to see what you come up with.

I heard you did a dyno test on the GR Corolla, and got 270.68fwhp. Do you have any more info? Vid? Was there a correction factor? Altitude, temp, humidty? Very excited to hear more. I don't facebook, so I have not seen it if you have more there.

I'm sure you heard, so far, there has only been 1 correctly done dyno test, which was on a Mustang Dyno, was 295, 298, and 299whp back-to-back runs in dyno mode... done by Limit+1, vid is on YT.

 

[GRMcFly]

Ahh... found the link on your site...

http://instagr.am/p/CoF82yPP-pa/

I don't instagran either.

 

[SXTH Element Engineering]

Ahh... found the link on your site...

http://instagr.am/p/CoF82yPP-pa/

I don't instagran either.

Hello! We had the car in for 3D scanning and wanted to see if 2WD dyno would work.
You found the video, which is good!

We have run our dyno since day one the same way.
- We always keep smoothing on 5
- We always use STD correction
- Our shop is climate controlled for the most part if we keep the doors shut. Ambient temp in the shop was around 65 degF.
- We are in Spartanburg, SC. Our elevation is between 900-1000 ft

Hope this helps!

 

[GRMcFly]

Great! A few more last questions, did you use dyno mode (the special mode Toyota put into the car)? Or did you use some other method to get it to dyno in FWD?

Did you do more runs and find that the power and boost was not consistent from back-to-back runs? Or did you find it very consistent and smooth (like Limit+1 with + or - 2hp variance once warmed up). Or just 2 runs, and that's it?

The dyno graph I see in the video is not as smooth as Limit+1's, the power does not hold all the way out to 7200rpm, and the peak power was not at 6400-6500 like Limit+1 was able to get on their dyno. According to the rating ([email protected]), the peak is at 6500rpm. I see you hit peak at 5870rpms.

Do you have a YT video on the dyno runs?

Lastly, all dyno's on the GRCorolla, are being listed and discussed on this thread. Pop in, and you'll get a ton of publicity...

Dyno thread

Sharing from Facebook, I know that she’s on here but I’m drawing a blank on her user name: figured we could consolidate these runs and future runs.

www.grcorollaforum.com

 

[SXTH Element Engineering]

Great! A few more last questions, did you use dyno mode (the special mode Toyota put into the car)? Or did you use some other method to get it to dyno in FWD?

Did you do more runs and find that the power and boost was not consistent from back-to-back runs? Or did you find it very consistent and smooth (like Limit+1 with + or - 2hp variance once warmed up). Or just 2 runs, and that's it?

The dyno graph I see in the video is not as smooth as Limit+1's, the power does not hold all the way out to 7200rpm, and the peak power was not at 6400-6500 like Limit+1 was able to get on their dyno. According to the rating ([email protected]), the peak is at 6500rpm. I see you hit peak at 5870rpms.

Do you have a YT video on the dyno runs?

Lastly, all dyno's on the GRCorolla, are being listed and discussed on this thread. Pop in, and you'll get a ton of publicity...

Dyno thread

Sharing from Facebook, I know that she’s on here but I’m drawing a blank on her user name: figured we could consolidate these runs and future runs.

www.grcorollaforum.com

We used this video:

After posting the vids on Facebook, a person showed us this tech procedure, which we will try next time. Attached to this post.

We only did the two runs in the video. Didn't feel the need to keep repeating it.

The video is on our Instagram page here:
SXTH Element Engineering on Instagram: "Had a new GR Corolla come in for a 3D scanning session so we also put it on the dyno to see what it would do in 2WD mode 🤓 • Only difference in the back to back runs was coolant/oil temps. It seems first run had temps not in the optimal zone of the OEM tuning, so after waiting a couple min to run it again, the slightly higher coolant/oil temps let out another 8whp up top. Pretty cool! • We will be working on a suite of GRC upgrades! Stay tuned! #toyota #toyotacorolla #grcorolla #gr #gazooracing #corolla #toyotagr #jdm #jdmcars #jdmgram #jdmlifestyle #jdmnation #jdmlife #jdmdaily #jdmculture #jdmtuning #sxth #sxthelementengineering"

Thanks!

 

[GRMcFly]

That's too bad. The dyno readings are very inconsistent in back-to-back runs, unless you are in dyno mode. At least you were in FWD. I still don't understand how you were able to put it in FWD, without dyno mode. Did you just pull the hand brake, and disconnect the "Electro Magnetic Control Coupling" connectors under the car at about where the backseats would be?

The procedure to put it in Dyno mode, IS NOT the same for the GR Corolla, as for the GR Yaris. Once you turn the car off once on the GR Corolla, it drops out of the procedure to get to dyno mode, unlike the GR Yaris, which is part of it.

Here's the correct way to dyno, in dyno mode (which should give you 6ps more according to the Japanese)

How To Properly Dyno a GR Corolla [for consistent...

From everything I've read and seen, the GR Yaris had inconsistent dyno numbers from back to back runs on the dyno. They were also able to solve the issue. Let's figure out if that's the same case for the GR Corolla, and how to dyno it correctly for consistent numbers. Being AWD, this can be a...

www.grcorollaforum.com

Here's where the Japanese state 6ps more...

Could be 6ps more, but could also be 299whp like Limit+1 got, since thats the only correctly done dyno mode test so far. There is obviously less drivetrain loss in FWD, and I estimate 280whp in AWD, if there was an AWD dyno mode.

 

[SXTH Element Engineering]

We tried a "dyno mode" step by step from another person posted here. The screen on the car gave some AWD test mode warning, but it did not allow the car to drive normally on the dyno.

After performing the steps in the previous video i showed you, the car drove as normal on the dyno.
When we bring the car back, we will try the procedure in the Toyota OEM document I attached previously.

The slightly different power up top was from having a optimal coolant temperature. If you look at the curves, the engine is operating normally and the dyno is reading that normally.

You are WAY overthinking all of this. The Limit+ guys used an entirely different machine than us.
The machines do not load the drivetrain in the same way, nor would they give similar results.

Dynos are tools for measuring change in power/torque of modifications. That is all we use ours for, not to establish the gospel of the absolute concrete WHP numbers lol.

 

[GRMcFly]

I watch the video you referred tobfor the GR Yaris... that's not even correct for thevGR Yaris. Had it been correct, it would state AWD test mode in the cluster.

The "AWD Test Mode" in the GR Yaris is the same as the "Inspection Mode" in the GR Corolla. They are meant to be used to inspect the rear end or AWD of the car. They are also so that you can dyno the car im FWD, which is the correct way since the rear end has a different ratio than the front and will fight the dyno.

I have the documentation that explains the procedures for both cars.

If you have a GR Yaris, here is the correct procedure, which puts it in "AWD Test Mode," this is not for GR Corolla

 

[SXTH Element Engineering]

I'm trying to tell you when we saw AWD mode warnings on the screen, the car would not drive. Repeated the steps multiple times with warnings confirmed on the cluster.
It would not allow us to operate it on our 2WD setup.

After performing the steps in the video I showed you, it allowed us to drive normally and run it wide open throttle normally.

Once we get the car back, I will try the OEM Toyota procedure document I attached earlier, and see how that differs.
It will simply offer another sample to the WHP pool of samples.

 

[GRMcFly]

...
The machines do not load the drivetrain in the same way, nor would they give similar results.

Dynos are tools for measuring change in power/torque of modifications. That is all we use ours for, not to establish the gospel of the absolute concrete WHP numbers lol.

Exactly. It was a Mustang Dyno. Different dyno, different results... Many dynos can be calibrated or converted to output Dynojet numbers. Dynojet, because thats the standard used by SAE.

I'm trying my best to help the aftermarket support to be ready and willing to produce results for the GR Corolla.

I myself am already working on performance products for the GR Corolla. I come from the Kseries products world, and developed many products, including working with Hondata to develop K-Pro, reflashes, etc etc... I can be selfish and release products all from my knowledge of what works, or I can help the community 1st.

If you dyno the car and claim a certain part makes X amount of power, and the community doesn't know different. Then, they buy garbage and they get no results. But if they know that there is a proper way to dyno a GR Corolla, and they see you not dyno'ing correctly, they can call foul. Education & knowledge keeps us honest.

 

[GRMcFly]

I'm trying to tell you when we saw AWD mode warnings on the screen, the car would not drive. Repeated the steps multiple times with warnings confirmed on the cluster.
It would not allow us to operate it on our 2WD setup.

After performing the steps in the video I showed you, it allowed us to drive normally and run it wide open throttle normally.

Once we get the car back, I will try the OEM Toyota procedure document I attached earlier, and see how that differs.
It will simply offer another sample to the WHP pool of samples.

You plainly used the wrong procedure. I posted the correct procedure. Don't use any procedures from the GR Yaris. The car is different, the engine is different, despite what people think.

If it is correctly done, which I'm sure it will be. I will be extremely happy, and you will get the customers. Promise. Only Limit+1 has done a dynotest correctly so far, and we have supposed dynojet range readings all over the place, 220whp to 299whp. Ridiculous.

 

[SXTH Element Engineering]

I understand what you are saying, but if I can only dyno it a certain way, and that happens to be the wrong way, how can i misrepresent a tune that adds 25whp?

Say my dynojet session is completely "wrong." The car dynos 265-270whp on my dyno, everytime we have it here stock.
Now we finish our stage 1 tune for example. New results on our machine are 300whp every time. A net gain of 30-35whp, repeatedly.

While my 300whp is still "wrong," my results of my product are concrete and repeatedly measurable by anyone who buys the tune.

What's the problem with that? I use my dyno as a tool to measure before and after and advertise accordingly.

I do not see a problem here.

 

[GRMcFly]

Totally correct. It's the gain that's important... and repeatable baseline is part of it, and repeatable gains also. Limit+1 showed back-to-back runs of + or - 2hp, that's the accuracy that a mustang dyno is capable off. They got 295.6whp, 298whp, 299whp. Impressive.

Many People don't understand dyno graphs, dyno runs, and what accuracy means. It's not the absolute number that matters, its consistency, and relative to something (another car, a previous run without mod, etc).

So my next question would be, what does a stock Elantra N DCT make on your dyno? You're a Hyundai company, so that's an easy one.

Lastly, I REALLY REALLY apreciate the dialog. I have a lot of respect for your company and products. I am excited that you are here.

 

[SXTH Element Engineering]

Next time the car is here. we'll do 10 back to back runs for ya. Sound good? lol

The mustang dyno accuracy isn't a question, the engine determined those output numbers.
That means the engine is nice and consistent given the operating conditions.

Unless a big event happens to the dyno to effect it's operation, like a broken or worn part in the middle of the runs, you won't see major power variations in runs because of the dyno.
It would be the engine. So many variables in a wide open throttle run that can effect back to back runs.

 

[GRMcFly]

Just 3 runs is plenty. As we know that the car is happiest in those 1st 3 runs. After that, we begin to get heatsoak, higher oil temps, higher coolant temps etc...

I've seen your dyno's actually on YT. Been following you guys for a while, actually. I saw you Dynojet a Veloster N and it put down 234whp, and on your old Mustang dyno it put down 236whp. 280whp is a stock Elantra N DCT. I'm expecting/guessing the same output on the GR Corolla, as the Elantra N DCT. Very exciting.

 

[SXTH Element Engineering]

Sounds good, we'll show ya ASAP

 

[GRMcFly]

Here's more very nice info you should know about the GR Corolla, and you may already know, but while we are both on... Toyota has given the media some of the updates they made to the GR Corolla over the Gar Yaris, and from part numbers, we have verified the following changes/improvements:
Exhaust Valve springs
Exhaust cam
Exhaust valves are larger
Cylinder head updated to accept those valves
Pistons
Oil cooler
High pressure fuel pump
Turbo
Intercooler
Exhaust
Obviously 2psi more

The car should have 40whp more than the GR Yaris to start, where the GR Yaris was dynoing 240whp. On the GR Yaris, there was a limit with the valvesprings and with the fuel, when going beyond 50whp gain... now that there are upgrades done from the factory, the potential gain from tuning is also 50whp above stock. So, 290whp was an issue before, and we can hope that the upper limit is now 340whp... this is with just tuning. BECAUSE with valvespring upgrades, drop in injectors, e85, turbo-back exhaust, and tuning the GR Yaris gained 100hp. They found no gain with intake (but there is a nice scoop developed by forge motorsport that looks promising)

Very exciting to see what just a tune would do for the GR Corolla.

 

[GRMcFly]

I'm going to make a solid guess, and say that you hit 277whp on the next dyno test, with dyno mode. Not 278, not 276, but 277whp exactly (with rounding). We can put some wagers down, and everyone at your shop puts a couple dollars down on each possible number. Mine is 277whp. I claim that one. I have cashapp/zelle/googlepay/etc/etc.

 

[SXTH Element Engineering]

We'll see what happens!