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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Came across this interesting article which was published a few months back. It brings up a valid point and one that we have discussed here especially regarding how much the GRC will weigh over the GRY.
Now as great as the G16 engine is, it is a small displacement 3 cylinder engine. Now that's fine and dandy to power a sub 3000lb car to respectful track times. But we are talking about an approx. 3500 lb car in the GRC. So the question is, do you think Toyota should have opted for the larger displacement 2.4L 4 cylinder turbo TA24 engine used in the Lexus RX300 compact SUV for the GRC? It is also mated to an AWD drivetrain (albeit an auto only, but wouldnt take much work for toyota to fab up a bellhousing that can adapt the GRY 6 speed manual).

We are 99.9% certain that the upcoming GRC will be using a higher output version of the G16. But perhaps the next generation GRC (if it lasts more than 1 generation) will utilize the larger displacement engine to compensate for the heavier GRC body.
I guess time will tell when matched up with the competition if the G16 powered GRC can hang with the likes of the
Golf-R and possibly STi.
Here is a link to the older article..
 

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Originally when rumblings came out about a hotter Corolla, I instantly imagined the car having the 8AR-FTS engine at the time. When the GR Yaris finally showed up I knew it would pretty much get that transplant but I was always worried about the engine due to weight.

As much as people say on here that “the G16e has been making 400-500hp” thats not long term reliability. Seeing Toyota put this engine through hydrogen testing, road racing, rally development etc, sold me on its durability, even for a heavy car.

Keiichi Tsuchiya took the 3700lb Hydrogen Corolla and flew around the track with ease.
 

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Over the last few decades, cars have gotten great at masking their weight due to advances in tech. For example, the R35 was a tank when it debuted, but it was also one of the best handling cars on the road.

Everything from suspension to tires, structural rigidity, etc. has gotten so advanced that, despite added weight, every modern enthusiast car easily out-handles and outperforms its older counterpart.

HOWEVER, the added weight is still weight. Modern tech can dial it out, but never truly hide it. Physics 101. Point being that lighter cars will always feel more special and more engaging, even if they’re ultimately slower.

Everyone has to decide for themselves what camp they’re in. Do you prefer nimble, lightweight cars that can be tossed around like a beachball or those that feel like a PlayStation on wheels with some turbo things.

Let’s face it, the GRC falls somewhere in the middle. It won’t be mega heavy for today’s standards, but not lightweight by any stretch. After all, it’s a Corolla, which is a class up in “luxury” over the Yaris.

Even if they give it 300 hp, it will never feel and drive like a GR Yaris with 500-600 lbs less weight.
 

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Over the last few decades, cars have gotten great at masking their weight due to advances in tech. For example, the R35 was a tank when it debuted, but it was also one of the best handling cars on the road.

Everything from suspension to tires, structural rigidity, etc. has gotten so advanced that, despite added weight, every modern enthusiast car easily out-handles and outperforms its older counterpart.

HOWEVER, the added weight is still weight. Modern tech can dial it out, but never truly hide it. Physics 101. Point being that lighter cars will always feel more special and more engaging, even if they’re ultimately slower.

Everyone has to decide for themselves what camp they’re in. Do you prefer nimble, lightweight cars that can be tossed around like a beachball or those that feel like a PlayStation on wheels with some turbo things.

Let’s face it, the GRC falls somewhere in the middle. It won’t be mega heavy for today’s standards, but not lightweight by any stretch. After all, it’s a Corolla, which is a class up in “luxury” over the Yaris.

Even if they give it 300 hp, it will never feel and drive like a GR Yaris with 500-600 lbs less weight.
That's a big thing with the likes of Teslas. Sure they are quick but you put one around a corner and around a track, you can feel all that weight that the batteries add
 
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Over the last few decades, cars have gotten great at masking their weight due to advances in tech. For example, the R35 was a tank when it debuted, but it was also one of the best handling cars on the road.

Everything from suspension to tires, structural rigidity, etc. has gotten so advanced that, despite added weight, every modern enthusiast car easily out-handles and outperforms its older counterpart.

HOWEVER, the added weight is still weight. Modern tech can dial it out, but never truly hide it. Physics 101. Point being that lighter cars will always feel more special and more engaging, even if they’re ultimately slower.

Everyone has to decide for themselves what camp they’re in. Do you prefer nimble, lightweight cars that can be tossed around like a beachball or those that feel like a PlayStation on wheels with some turbo things.

Let’s face it, the GRC falls somewhere in the middle. It won’t be mega heavy for today’s standards, but not lightweight by any stretch. After all, it’s a Corolla, which is a class up in “luxury” over the Yaris.

Even if they give it 300 hp, it will never feel and drive like a GR Yaris with 500-600 lbs less weight.
I think it’s interesting that some people still think the car will weigh 3000 lbs even.

In the recent Best Motoring video with the Hydrogen GRC, the first thing Keiichi Tsuchiya was shocked by was the weight. At 3700 lbs he said it’s close to GTR weight with a 3 cylinder which was off putting.

A couple people in the comment section talked about how weight in the street car would drastically change the characteristics from the GR Yaris.
 

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While I'm a "no risplacement for displacement" guy myself, the G16 is certainly shaping up to be a very special engine. From the girdle design, the port size, the cylinder bore thickness, it's one of the most stout looking blocks that Toyota has made in quite some time. The only reason Motiv blew the headgasket on theirs is because the head lifted a bit at 37psi of boost.

Once parts start coming out for this engine, specifically a headgasket and studs, this thing will be ready to go way past 500hp. More than enough for a Yaris or a Corolla.

Now imagine two of these G16s joined at the crank, making a 3.2L I6. And then cry yourself to sleep knowing there will never be a Supra with that motor. :LOL:
 

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While I'm a "no risplacement for displacement" guy myself, the G16 is certainly shaping up to be a very special engine. From the girdle design, the port size, the cylinder bore thickness, it's one of the most stout looking blocks that Toyota has made in quite some time. The only reason Motiv blew the headgasket on theirs is because the head lifted a bit at 37psi of boost.

Once parts start coming out for this engine, specifically a headgasket and studs, this thing will be ready to go way past 500hp. More than enough for a Yaris or a Corolla.

Now imagine two of these G16s joined at the crank, making a 3.2L I6. And then cry yourself to sleep knowing there will never be a Supra with that motor. :LOL:
To me this is the successor to the 4AGE. Small motor that can be be customized for power.

it does make you wonder what that new Mazda I6 is going to be like since Toyota is helping them build it 🤔
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
To me this is the successor to the 4AGE. Small motor that can be be customized for power.

it does make you wonder what that new Mazda I6 is going to be like since Toyota is helping them build it 🤔
Maybe it will be the replacement motor in a next generation supra if they decide to do another generation. With poor sales, it doesn't look good...
I think Toyota really dropped ths ball on tbe supra. As much as I do like the car, they kinda screwed the pooch with letting BMW handle most of the build. I mean what made the MK4 supra the legend that it is today is more specifically the motor and not so much the exterior (even though it is a sexy looking car).
Its your company's flagship sports car! And being so, it should come equipped with a powerplant that YOU designed and developed! The 2JZ is arguably the most popular import engine ever built.
And while the engine is "outdated" with today's technology, In sure Toyota could have taken the blue prints for the 2JZ and made advancements to it and released it as a 3JZ.
Using billet aluminum instead of a cast iron block, but still keeping it closed deck to handle all the boost! Redesign the 2jz cylinder head to make it flow better, and give it variable valve timing on both cams. Redesign the intake manifold for direct and port injection, and Boom there ya go, the 3JZ!
They wouldnt have had to spend nearly as much R&D if they went this route, whike at the same time keeping the powertrain all Toyota!
I'm sure it would have cost just as much as they spent on their collaboration with BMW.
Ok, I'm done ranting...
 

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Maybe it will be the replacement motor in a next generation supra if they decide to do another generation. With poor sales, it doesn't look good...
I think Toyota really dropped ths ball on tbe supra. As much as I do like the car, they kinda screwed the pooch with letting BMW handle most of the build. I mean what made the MK4 supra the legend that it is today is more specifically the motor and not so much the exterior (even though it is a sexy looking car).
Its your company's flagship sports car! And being so, it should come equipped with a powerplant that YOU designed and developed! The 2JZ is arguably the most popular import engine ever built.
And while the engine is "outdated" with today's technology, In sure Toyota could have taken the blue prints for the 2JZ and made advancements to it and released it as a 3JZ.
Using billet aluminum instead of a cast iron block, but still keeping it closed deck to handle all the boost! Redesign the 2jz cylinder head to make it flow better, and give it variable valve timing on both cams. Redesign the intake manifold for direct and port injection, and Boom there ya go, the 3JZ!
They wouldnt have had to spend nearly as much R&D if they went this route, whike at the same time keeping the powertrain all Toyota!
I'm sure it would have cost just as much as they spent on their collaboration with BMW.
Ok, I'm done ranting...
I was gonna get into the intricacies of the car but you should talk to Guff sometime. When you put a lot of things into context the Supra didn’t do too bad compared to the MKIV
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I was gonna get into the intricacies of the car but you should talk to Guff sometime. When you put a lot of things into context the Supra didn’t do too bad compared to the MKIV
Possibly, i mean a manual equipped (if the runor is true) 2023 supra is my first choice if the GRC fails to impress.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Rumor is all but confirmed.
Confirmed for the japanese market but not so much for other markets. And also some confusion on if it will be available on the 4 cylinder only, 6 cylinder only, or both.
Also would like to know if the manual will be just as stout as the V160/1 that was in the TT MK4.
 

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Nah, the inline 3 is pretty compact and that is going to translate to handling. The front end should be pretty spry. I’ll take the 3 banger as it’s been well developed, takes additional power, and most importantly doesn’t sound or feel like a damn inline 4 which I loathe. The intervals that the pistons fire on the 3 cylinder, gives it some character and feel you wouldn’t get out of an inline 4.
 

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Nah, the inline 3 is pretty compact and that is going to translate to handling. The front end should be pretty spry. I’ll take the 3 banger as it’s been well developed, takes additional power, and most importantly doesn’t sound or feel like a damn inline 4 which I loathe. The intervals that the pistons fire on the 3 cylinder, gives it some character and feel you wouldn’t get out of an inline 4.
Sure man. At the end of the day it’s nice seeing the Corolla getting love. Been long overdue in my opinion.
 

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I’ll take the 3 banger as it’s been well developed, takes additional power, and most importantly doesn’t sound or feel like a damn inline 4 which I loathe. The intervals that the pistons fire on the 3 cylinder, gives it some character and feel you wouldn’t get out of an inline 4.
But the GR Yaris sounds awful IMO
 

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Confirmed for the japanese market but not so much for other markets. And also some confusion on if it will be available on the 4 cylinder only, 6 cylinder only, or both.
Also would like to know if the manual will be just as stout as the V160/1 that was in the TT MK4.
The manual transmission will be stout as it will likely be the same Getrag transmission that's used in the M3/M4, M2C, that BMW has been using for a long time.
 

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But the GR Yaris sounds awful IMO
The stock version does but the aftermarket systems sound amazing and much better than most exhausts people will put on 4 bangers
 

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The stock version does but the aftermarket systems sound amazing and much better than most exhausts people will put on 4 bangers
To be fair, it's hard to give much bite to a 4 cylinder, nonetheless a 3 banger. One of the reasons people love V8s is the sound. The only 4 cylinder I can think of that legitimately sounds great from factory is the Subaru WRX STI, which they accomplished with uneven exhaust headers and spent a ton of time and money R&D'ing.
IMO, sound is one of the biggest downsides to owning a small displacement, turbo car. I love turbo whine and BOVs, but the engine note will just never be the same.
 
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I honestly like V6's more than V8's most of the time but nothing beats the sound a naturally aspirated V8 or V12
 
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