Called it. I still don't understand the delusion on the other forums that thought this wouldn't happen based on Acura dealers' reputation.
MY24 Integra Type S
121 - 133 of 133 Posts
I dont understand people who think used cars are cheap and new cars are readily available. Then they say they can get the next tier car for a few thousand more completely ignoring cost of maintenance/repairs of the next tier.
What they will never understand is that it's not an apples-to-apples comparison for a luxury brand "lower-end" performance car and a considerably higher-end performance Toyota or Honda. Honda and Toyota sell, mostly, economic vehicles. Can't say the same for BMW, as many like to use as an example.I dont understand people who think used cars are cheap and new cars are readily available. Then they say they can get the next tier car for a few thousand more completely ignoring cost of maintenance/repairs of the next tier.
Both Honda and Toyota have to contract and separate teams of engineers and technicians and locations along with logistical routes or planning to get these hot hatches out. It really isn't convenient for them and the pricepoint reflects that at MSRP. BMW on the otherhand has the facilities ready and capable for those performance cars which helps them drive that price down. Along with already selling comparitvely more expensive vehicles, it isn't an incovenience to offer a vehicle for a "few" thousand dollars more than when a "boring" or a usually economic car company releases a hot hatch.
Adding onto this, if you think about the manufacturers that still make hot hatches today, they're made by titans of the Auto industry (i.e., Volkswagen, Honda, and now Toyota). These three are already in basically every other segment and are damn successful at moving volume in all these segments. Other than pickups... VW doesn't make one and Honda's is a minivan with a bed.What they will never understand is that it's not an apples-to-apples comparison for a luxury brand "lower-end" performance car and a considerably higher-end performance Toyota or Honda. Honda and Toyota sell, mostly, economic vehicles. Can't say the same for BMW, as many like to use as an example.
Both Honda and Toyota have to contract and separate teams of engineers and technicians and locations along with logistical routes or planning to get these hot hatches out. It really isn't convenient for them and the pricepoint reflects that at MSRP. BMW on the otherhand has the facilities ready and capable for those performance cars which helps them drive that price down. Along with already selling comparitvely more expensive vehicles, it isn't an incovenience to offer a vehicle for a "few" thousand dollars more than when a "boring" or a usually economic car company releasing a hot hatch.
Point is, once you reach that point of total market domination, only then will manufacturers consider fun, lower volume projects like hot hatches and sports cars.
It's why smaller manufacturers like Subaru aren't prioritizing something like a Wrx hatchback anymore. Seems like the priority nowadays from most to least priority is electrified vehicles (including hybrid), SUV's/CUV's, sedans, sports cars, hot hatches
Because they think we are made out of money, and interest rate is like 7%+. That's not even including the ADM and mandatory trade in.And they wonder why they don't have a list..
Everyone bailed because the 6k spread between the FL5 and DE5. FL5 drive out is $53k and DE5 is $58k with fewer things. Acura fooled me when they announced the pricing at $55k, but it is excluding PDI and destination; Honda advertises their cars with PDI and fee included on their site.
On the other hand, the Americans are very interested in our pricing because it's favorable to them after conversions and ours get heated steering.
They are more interested in making "commuter cars" or disposable appliances due to the volume. Our love for hot hatches is like a very minority.Adding onto this, if you think about the manufacturers that still make hot hatches today, they're made by titans of the Auto industry (i.e., Volkswagen, Honda, and now Toyota). These three are already in basically every other segment and are damn successful at moving volume in all these segments. Other than pickups... VW doesn't make one and Honda's is a minivan with a bed.
Point is, once you reach that point of total market domination, only then will manufacturers consider fun, lower volume projects like hot hatches and sports cars.
It's why smaller manufacturers like Subaru aren't prioritizing something like a Wrx hatchback anymore. Seems like the priority nowadays from most to least priority is electrified vehicles (including hybrid), SUV's/CUV's, sedans, sports cars, hot hatches
Actually VW does make on they just don’t send it to the US.Other than pickups... VW doesn't make one and Honda's is a minivan with a bed.
The Honda is not a minivan with a bed. It’s actually got a very sophisticated AWD system with torque vector rear shafts. It’s also got more payload, in that very bed you speak, than a Raptor. It also tows 5000 pounds. Even the new Tacoma hybrid, with all that extra torque, only tows 1000 lbs more. Unibody = better handling.
I'll take your word for it, I'm not very well versed in the truck world. But it's no secret that other trucks (i.e. F150, Tundra/Tacoma, Silverado, etc) sell way more trucks, which was my pointActually VW does make on they just don’t send it to the US.
The Honda is not a minivan with a bed. It’s actually got a very sophisticated AWD system with torque vector rear shafts. It’s also got more payload, in that very bed you speak, than a Raptor. It also tows 5000 pounds. Even the new Tacoma hybrid, with all that extra torque, only tows 1000 lbs more. Unibody = better handling.
Something like 80%+ of truck owners never tow anything, or even use the bed. I live in truck land. It’s an image buy and nothing more. They’ll have a ball in the hitch which is spotless without a mark on it. Meanwhile, I’m towing every other weekend like 7 months out of the year. Sales is sales. That’s like saying Britney Spears, when she was the #1 selling artist in the world, was good music.I'll take your word for it, I'm not very well versed in the truck world. But it's no secret that other trucks (i.e. F150, Tundra/Tacoma, Silverado, etc) sell way more trucks, which was my point
Honda in fact spurred on the compact segment in trucks. A Taco and Frontier was it. When Honda did the 2nd gen Ridgeline, everyone starting coming out with compact pickups again. Chevy, Ford, even Hyundai have one now. Actually Ford has two. So by your reasoning, I guess, sales = the best. Well the GR Corolla is doomed then. It’s not the highest selling hatchback made
Except in Subaru's case, its as far from the truth as one can possibly get. For over 12+ years the Impreza hatchback has outsold the sedan. In fact, for the latest Impreza generation, the sedan was canceled due to lack of demand (as stated by Subaru). Based on this, should one assume, given the choice, that a WRX sedan would outsell a WRX hatchback? HIGHLY unlikely. And if Subaru doesn't know that, they should fire their marketing department.It's why smaller manufacturers like Subaru aren't prioritizing something like a Wrx hatchback anymore. Seems like the priority nowadays from most to least priority is electrified vehicles (including hybrid), SUV's/CUV's, sedans, sports cars, hot hatches
They should fire the marketing department then, since for the new VB Wrx Subaru specifically said they did not put R&D into hatchback body, instead opting to do it on the sedan. The reason was to spend more R&D money into EV technology I believe.Except in Subaru's case, its as far from the truth as one can possibly get. For over 12+ years the Impreza hatchback has outsold the sedan. In fact, for the latest Impreza generation, the sedan was canceled due to lack of demand (as stated by Subaru). Based on this, should one assume, given the choice, that a WRX sedan would outsell a WRX hatchback? HIGHLY unlikely. And if Subaru doesn't know that, they should fire their marketing department.
The VB Wrx is still selling pretty well since it is the only Wrx available to buy new and the new FA24. And the fact that they're more readily available nationwide and now easily had for thousands under MSRP. It's way more accessible.
The Wrx Premium is a good value at low to mid 30's. The Wrx GT still got me scratching my head... $43-44k for a CVT Wrx (albeit a very good CVT). Why is the top trim Wrx only in a CVT when the VA gen's manual take rate was almost 90%? Surely Subaru know what they're doing... right?
The Wrx GT would have been a more enticing platform if they added the STI goodies like the brakes, transmission and DCCD. Maybe some forged BBS wheels. Had they done that I feel like the $44k price tag would be justified
my guess is that the WRX GT was supposed to fill the spot of the STI. STI demographic tends to be older and higher earners than WRX buyers.
Generally speaking, yes by simple virtue of the STI being more expensive.my guess is that the WRX GT was supposed to fill the spot of the STI. STI demographic tends to be older and higher earners than WRX buyers.
however, as a former member of the Subaru community I can tell you that not one person I know who has or had a STI is interested in a Wrx GT.
I heard from somewhere that the Wrx GT was made to bring in a different demographic of buyer into Subaru, like someone in the market for an entry luxury car like Audi A3
Market research isn’t always what reality is. This is why many car companies have market specific models. Subaru being a smaller company doesn’t have the fortune to sell to models that are market specific. The only exception is the Ascent.
121 - 133 of 133 Posts
Toyota GR Corolla Forum - Ownership Discussion
2023+ Toyota GR Corolla Forum - Allocation info, Ownership Q&A, Enthusiast discussion
Full Forum Listing
Top Contributors this Month
View All
Cptnslo
289 Replies
Tokyotexan
230 Replies
AUSyTyIN
205 Replies
Recommended Communities
