Knowing Toyota, I believe it will be reliable. The G16E-GTS engine appears to be overbuilt and is tunable to 400-500hp on stock internal. The wrc Yaris cars are pushing 450hp on the same engine so far as I know. There are also some really good videos on YouTube about the G16E-GTS.
Long time reliability G16E-GTS
I.
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Oh.. I do not doubt it's capability, it's long time reliability I wonder ... 300hp out of 3 cyl 1.6 ... how long can that little engine last under that much pressure ?Knowing Toyota, I believe it will be reliable. The G16E-GTS engine appears to be overbuilt and is tunable to 400-500hp on stock internal. The wrc Yaris cars are pushing 450hp on the same engine so far as I know. There are also some really good videos on YouTube about the G16E-GTS.
In WRC they actually rebuild the engine after a number of eventsKnowing Toyota, I believe it will be reliable. The G16E-GTS engine appears to be overbuilt and is tunable to 400-500hp on stock internal. The wrc Yaris cars are pushing 450hp on the same engine so far as I know. There are also some really good videos on YouTube about the G16E-GTS.
That is very true. I was just saying that the engine is tuned down from a wrc car and thus probably going to be more reliable.In WRC they actually rebuild the engine after a number of events
Others here have mentioned 400 and I believe even 500+. But I am kind of skeptical as you are, 500+ on stock internals is 312 hp / liter. Even the revered 2JZ is reliable to about ~266 hp / liter on a stock block, and that's a closed deck iron block engine. Of course there have been about 30 years of improvements and there are some aluminum / open deck engines capable of handling tons of boost nowadays.Oh.. I do not doubt it's capability, it's long time reliability I wonder ... 300hp out of 3 cyl 1.6 ... how long can that little engine last under that much pressure ?
Personally whenever I get my GRC, I'd probably wouldn't push further past 400WHP until others with more $$ have tested/proven it's reliability over a long period of time at higher HP levels.
Stock? For awhile. After tuning? Who knows.Oh.. I do not doubt it's capability, it's long time reliability I wonder ... 300hp out of 3 cyl 1.6 ... how long can that little engine last under that much pressure ?
Its a topic everyone has an opinion on. I think the G16 is very stout. It being “overbuilt” (like most Toyota engines) is more for long term reliability in stock form, it just so happens the engine can take power as well.
T
This is my opinion on the engine too. Overbuilt and if properly maintained I trust it will last for years. At the same time if you neglect it and or beat the snot out of it your probably going to have problems.Stock? For awhile. After tuning? Who knows.
Its a topic everyone has an opinion on. I think the G16 is very stout. It being “overbuilt” (like most Toyota engines) is more for long term reliability in stock form, it just so happens the engine can take power as well.
I don’t think people understand that the actual WRC car they were going to race with (Yaris) had a different G16 in it then what the public got. Even the GR Four AWD is differentOthers here have mentioned 400 and I believe even 500+. But I am kind of skeptical as you are, 500+ on stock internals is 312 hp / liter. Even the revered 2JZ is reliable to about ~266 hp / liter on a stock block, and that's a closed deck iron block engine. Of course there have been about 30 years of improvements and there are some aluminum / open deck engines capable of handling tons of boost nowadays.
Personally whenever I get my GRC, I'd probably wouldn't push further past 400WHP until others with more $$ have tested/proven it's reliability over a long period of time at higher HP levels.
This conversation is something I wanted to have for awhile but it’s kind of hard explaining certain things
I admit to wondering if this would be the case. I was just trying to look that info up. It doesn't surprise me at all that wrc Yaris has a G16 varient engine. I retract my former post about it being the same detuned engine.I don’t think people understand that the actual WRC car they were going to race with (Yaris) had a different G16 in it then what the public got.
This conversation is something I wanted to have for awhile but it’s kind of hard explaining certain things
I am not skeptical that can do 500HP ... how long will it last ?Others here have mentioned 400 and I believe even 500+. But I am kind of skeptical as you are, 500+ on stock internals is 312 hp / liter. Even the revered 2JZ is reliable to about ~266 hp / liter on a stock block, and that's a closed deck iron block engine. Of course there have been about 30 years of improvements and there are some aluminum / open deck engines capable of handling tons of boost nowadays.
Personally whenever I get my GRC, I'd probably wouldn't push further past 400WHP until others with more $$ have tested/proven it's reliability over a long period of time at higher HP levels.
Power output HP/L is supercar territory : HP/L ratio for 911 GTS is 168HP/L vs 187HP/L for GRC ... and I do not know a reliable supercar ... maybe 911 GTS is close as an example of reasonable reliable ... although I don't see many 911 GTS with high mileage
All high output engines usually are short lived ... Just think about if this was a 6 cylinder engine... 600HP out of 6 cylinder it is super car territory .
There is a good reason all Toyota cars are reliable ... mid to low output/L and low rev engines ... but this is the exact opposite . I know it has larger oil cooler and oil jet piston coolers ... but still
Well yeah but that's the thing, it'll definitely last in stock form. There are some people that assume it can hold high horsepower for awhile which I think is a little funny.I am not skeptical that can do 500HP ... how long will it last ?
Power output HP/L is supercar territory : HP/L ratio for 911 GTS is 168HP/L vs 187HP/L for GRC ... and I do not know a reliable supercar ... maybe 911 GTS is close as an example of reasonable reliable ... although I don't see many 911 GTS with high mileage
All high output engines usually are short lived ... Just think about if this was a 6 cylinder engine... 600HP out of 6 cylinder it is super car territory .
There is a good reason all Toyota cars are reliable ... mid to low output/L and low rev engines ... but this is the exact opposite . I know it has larger oil cooler and oil jet piston coolers ... but still
That's exactly what I said/meant. We know it can make the HP, but reliability (time) on stock internals is the question.I am not skeptical that can do 500HP ... how long will it last ?
There's a number and we won't know what it is until people start reaching it and keeping it there. I'm not convinced it will last a long time at 500+WHP. I surely hope I'm dead wrong.
Like I said, I'll be keeping mine lower until proven otherwise.
187 HP/ L (1000cc) is anything but tuned ... downThat is very true. I was just saying that the engine is tuned down from a wrc car and thus probably going to be more reliable.
EA888 pushes 315HP in Golf R 157Hp/L, but it has an iron block
I think it can hold high 300's reliably.
I'll do some bolts on if any HP increase , 300hp is enough for commuting till I do 100K or 4-5 years, then once commuting duty is "paid off" , we can play a bit ... I never mess with commuters till they're done their jobThat's exactly what I said/meant. We know it can make the HP, but reliability (time) on stock internals is the question.
There's a number and we won't know what it is until people start reaching it and keeping it there. I'm not convinced it will last a long time at 500+WHP. I surely hope I'm dead wrong.
Like I said, I'll be keeping mine lower until proven otherwise.
VW kind of "reliability"(100K) for sure, but Toyota kind (250K) ... we'll see, I do hope soI think it can hold high 300's reliably.
To make this relatively simple, these small displacement engines today all operate on basically on the same principle. ~10:1 compression ratios with some amount of boost fed in via forced induction. The GrY is around 20psi stock, GrC is going to be around 22-23psi stock. Civic Si ~18psi. Civic Type-R ~23psi. 4-cylinder Supra's BMW engine is ~14psi and Mercedes' M139 fire breather is 30.45psi. The amount of boost and the ability to control detonation/hotspots is really the differentiation as these are still considered general production engines. Stuff like Ferrari and other exotics really start to care if you get a single tank of bad gas or a little amount of buildup which creates hot spots, slightly out of spec valve lift and other issues because they operate on such a fine line. Not so much with these more production motors. While I'm not a fan of "it's a Toyota, it's fine" mentality it's one of those where if you're concerned based upon the power output relative to the number of cylinders or displacement, you've got little to worry about. If the basis of the worry is about over revving or the 38psi eventual failure of the headgasket/stock studs in the 500hp builds, don't worry.. As both of those are not situations aren't real reliability issues unless the plan is to over rev the motor or crank up the boost. Kind of the same 'issue' that occurred with the last gen Celica. Users were blowing the engine because they didn't know how to downshift and VVTi was such a high engagement point (and in part I think redline/fuel cut didn't exactly match, but let's not get into the weeds) so Toyota had to lower the redline.I was thinking about the long time reliability for G16E-GTS ... considering the power output of 300 HP for just a 1.6L 3 cylinder engine, would this engine be as reliable as all the other Toyota engines?
DO you guys think this will last 250 -300k with proper care and maintenance under regular use and pushing it hard once every other week? Watching YT there are quite few GRY with blown engines due to overrevving issues ... I wonder if there is something we should worry about ...
People also need to understand that 'overbuilt' doesn't mean a whole lot in regards long term reliability. Sure the block has beefy sleeves, but who cares how thick the sleeves are or there's a bottom end girdle if the piston ring lands on the new pistons only survive 5000 heat cycles without deforming? If there's a bearing oiling issue in the design, if the dual injection fuel system is prone to detonation after a certain level of buildup, etc. Basically I don't think anyone is really worried if the power can be made (name one half decent stock engine that can't be pushed for more power), but if that power is reliable and sustainable as wear, deposits and parts starting to move toward spec limits (valve adjustments, injector vaporization efficiency, etc). Ultimately there's really no way to know besides knowing there's GR Yaris' owners who have a 2-3 year head start on you. As anyone who's been in the car field a while knows each engine has its problems, doesn't matter the brand, you just hope they're not something you have to really go out of your way to address.
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