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We might as well stop right here. Everybody needs to decide if their willing to pay at least $10K over MSRP for this Toyota. Basically over $50K for a 300hp Core Corolla. And probably $60K for a Circuit.
Eh there are dealers doing MSRP, you just have to do the research and find them. That is what makes the list so nice to have, when you call and get pricing from a dealer you can document what they are doing and add them to the list. I have a feeling that toyota will eventually make more, first year its 6600 units so I guess we will see how it goes....
 

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We might as well stop right here. Everybody needs to decide if their willing to pay at least $10K over MSRP for this Toyota. Basically over $50K for a 300hp Core Corolla. And probably $60K for a Circuit.

I'm not paying $1 over msrp. If that's not the case, then I'm out. 2 dealers I'm at msrp and will be waiting 2 or 3 years. Might as well buy a M235ix if you pay 10k over.
 

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Brent brown Toyota Utah 15k markup

Karl Malone Toyota Utah10k Mark up with credit check
Performance Toyota in Bountiful, 10k markup. Mark Miller Toyota in SLC tho, no markups on any vehicle.

We might as well stop right here. Everybody needs to decide if their willing to pay at least $10K over MSRP for this Toyota. Basically over $50K for a 300hp Core Corolla. And probably $60K for a Circuit.
No there's still some hope, but circuits are definitely getting hit with ADMs.
 

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The dealers would stop the insane markups if people stopped paying them. I really think it’s that simple. Fortunately, it seems as though most if not everyone here has put their foot down in regards to markups, so well done on that front everyone. My deposit is with a dealer that doesn’t do them, and if you’re in a populous area I think you should be able to call around/do some research as to which dealerships don’t mark up.

In fact, it’s pretty simple to find out. Just go on the dealers’ sites and/or cars dot com and look at their prices on desirable cars. You don’t even have to call them…if Tacos/4Runners/GR86s are selling for MSRP, you should be good to go, but definitely reach out to confirm.

If you ultimately decide that paying a huge markup is worth it, it’s your money and your decision and I’ll respect it, but I’d still encourage you to think of your fellow enthusiasts/people of normal means. This is a car that’s supposedly going to be priced in a way that regular people/everyday enthusiasts will eventually be able to get one if they really want it.

If people are willing to pay ridiculous ADMs, dealerships will keep them rolling, and it’ll turn a 30 something grand car into a 40 or 50 grand one really quickly…and that’ll do two things:

1). Turn a regular car into a rich people toy, a fate that every enthusiast should weep over and an unfortunate phenomenon that’s made many great, previously attainable cars into collector’s pieces. A perfect JDM example of this phenomenon would be what’s happened with the Integra Type R. And hell…a nice S2000 is a 30k+ proposition at this point, with immaculate ones selling for way more.

2). Put it in the price range of stuff it can’t really compete with. GR3000 already brought this up…but at 50 grand or more, you’d be nuts not to go with something German (My pick would be an M340i, that thing slaps) or a more dedicated sports car like a Supra or a Mustang Mach I/Camaro SS ILE. That’s even the price point where you can start to get your hands on a nice secondhand Porsche.
 

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The dealers would stop the insane markups if people stopped paying them. I really think it’s that simple. Fortunately, it seems as though most if not everyone here has put their foot down in regards to markups, so well done on that front everyone. My deposit is with a dealer that doesn’t do them, and if you’re in a populous area I think you should be able to call around/do some research as to which dealerships don’t mark up.

In fact, it’s pretty simple to find out. Just go on the dealers’ sites and/or cars dot com and look at their prices on desirable cars. You don’t even have to call them…if Tacos/4Runners/GR86s are selling for MSRP, you should be good to go, but definitely reach out to confirm.

If you ultimately decide that paying a huge markup is worth it, it’s your money and your decision and I’ll respect it, but I’d still encourage you to think of your fellow enthusiasts/people of normal means. This is a car that’s supposedly going to be priced in a way that regular people/everyday enthusiasts will eventually be able to get one if they really want it.

If people are willing to pay ridiculous ADMs, dealerships will keep them rolling, and it’ll turn a 30 something grand car into a 40 or 50 grand one really quickly…and that’ll do two things:

1). Turn a regular car into a rich people toy, a fate that every enthusiast should weep over and an unfortunate phenomenon that’s made many great, previously attainable cars into collector’s pieces. A perfect JDM example of this phenomenon would be what’s happened with the Integra Type R. And hell…a nice S2000 is a 30k+ proposition at this point, with immaculate ones selling for way more.

2). Put it in the price range of stuff it can’t really compete with. GR3000 already brought this up…but at 50 grand or more, you’d be nuts not to go with something German (My pick would be an M340i, that thing slaps) or a more dedicated sports car like a Supra or a Mustang Mach I/Camaro SS ILE. That’s even the price point where you can start to get your hands on a nice secondhand Porsche.
Agree 100% but there are lots of folks that have no issue spending extra, otherwise like you said they wouldnt do it. I've seen postings where they have ADM of 5K or 10K and have 3 or more on the waiting list with actual deposits, lol. It just is what it is, I'd like to have a Honda Type R but it was and still is the same issues, Honda decides to keep the production low enough that dealers continue to this day to mark them up and I am not going to go that route. So it's really a mfg and dealer in combination since if they upped the production a lot of this would go away, but again it is what it is. I'm a subie fanboy for like ever and kept waiting for the new STI but we see what happened with that so here I am, I will not pay above MSRP, but thats just me and I could afford it but its the principle for me. I guess we will see how it shakes out, I have read that Toyota will have the capacity to build more but will they, hard to say, these companies like keeping the volume low just so they generate all the buzz etc. Just a shame that there are not many hot hatches out there....
 

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The dealers would stop the insane markups if people stopped paying them. I really think it’s that simple. Fortunately, it seems as though most if not everyone here has put their foot down in regards to markups, so well done on that front everyone. My deposit is with a dealer that doesn’t do them, and if you’re in a populous area I think you should be able to call around/do some research as to which dealerships don’t mark up.

In fact, it’s pretty simple to find out. Just go on the dealers’ sites and/or cars dot com and look at their prices on desirable cars. You don’t even have to call them…if Tacos/4Runners/GR86s are selling for MSRP, you should be good to go, but definitely reach out to confirm.

If you ultimately decide that paying a huge markup is worth it, it’s your money and your decision and I’ll respect it, but I’d still encourage you to think of your fellow enthusiasts/people of normal means. This is a car that’s supposedly going to be priced in a way that regular people/everyday enthusiasts will eventually be able to get one if they really want it.

If people are willing to pay ridiculous ADMs, dealerships will keep them rolling, and it’ll turn a 30 something grand car into a 40 or 50 grand one really quickly…and that’ll do two things:

1). Turn a regular car into a rich people toy, a fate that every enthusiast should weep over and an unfortunate phenomenon that’s made many great, previously attainable cars into collector’s pieces. A perfect JDM example of this phenomenon would be what’s happened with the Integra Type R. And hell…a nice S2000 is a 30k+ proposition at this point, with immaculate ones selling for way more.

2). Put it in the price range of stuff it can’t really compete with. GR3000 already brought this up…but at 50 grand or more, you’d be nuts not to go with something German (My pick would be an M340i, that thing slaps) or a more dedicated sports car like a Supra or a Mustang Mach I/Camaro SS ILE. That’s even the price point where you can start to get your hands on a nice secondhand Porsche.
I understand your frustration, the closest dealership to me has been charging $10k ADMs on everything since covid, even a Rav4 I wanted. The issue isn't people willing to pay it though, it's the dealer structure in general. ADMs are the symptom, dealership sales are the disease. They're the bottleneck that prevents enthusiasts from getting these cars. Maybe you could convince every consumer to boycott dealers charging ADM, but your issue will still persist eventually. Ditch the middleman, dealerships should only handle service and parts.

I'm on the list at Mark Miller and Larry Miller. Just thought I'd check with those others to see.
Ditto 🤘
 

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I understand your frustration, the closest dealership to me has been charging $10k ADMs on everything since covid, even a Rav4 I wanted. The issue isn't people willing to pay it though, it's the dealer structure in general. ADMs are the symptom, dealership sales are the disease. They're the bottleneck that prevents enthusiasts from getting these cars. Maybe you could convince every consumer to boycott dealers charging ADM, but your issue will still persist eventually. Ditch the middleman, dealerships should only handle service and parts.
Agree, I don't even let them work on my cars I do all that myself, the markup and hourly rate is just atrocious...but thats just me, I'd rather spend the money on a tool I need then give it to them, lol. :)
 

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Agree, I don't even let them work on my cars I do all that myself, the markup and hourly rate is just atrocious...but thats just me, I'd rather spend the money on a tool I need then give it to them, lol. :)
It's true. I had them install some rotors on a car I bought recently so I could document it, and they took so much longer than it would have taken me and milked that hourly service rate. Not to knock them completely though, I've had some great experiences at multiple service departments. They're normally the good guys in regard to dealerships lol
 

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It's true. I had them install some rotors on a car I bought recently so I could document it, and they took so much longer than it would have taken me and milked that hourly service rate. Not to knock them completely though, I've had some great experiences at multiple service departments. They're normally the good guys in regard to dealerships lol
Yeah it's not the mechanics I have an issue with, most of them are good hard working people, it's just the dealerships that mark everything up and then they don't even pay the workers what they should be making. I just started doing all my work myself unless its a recall, just to much hassle. Last time I went to a dealer was to remove a stud on a wheel that costco cross threaded, lol.
 

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Agree 100% but there are lots of folks that have no issue spending extra, otherwise like you said they wouldnt do it. I've seen postings where they have ADM of 5K or 10K and have 3 or more on the waiting list with actual deposits, lol. It just is what it is, I'd like to have a Honda Type R but it was and still is the same issues, Honda decides to keep the production low enough that dealers continue to this day to mark them up and I am not going to go that route. So it's really a mfg and dealer in combination since if they upped the production a lot of this would go away, but again it is what it is. I'm a subie fanboy for like ever and kept waiting for the new STI but we see what happened with that so here I am, I will not pay above MSRP, but thats just me and I could afford it but its the principle for me. I guess we will see how it shakes out, I have read that Toyota will have the capacity to build more but will they, hard to say, these companies like keeping the volume low just so they generate all the buzz etc. Just a shame that there are not many hot hatches out there....
Re: hot hatches, in the traditional sense you are very much correct. In the US pretty much all we have on offer is the GTI/Golf R, the Civic/CTR (although I think calling their take on it a hatch is a bit generous, it’s more of a shooting brake type of design IMHO), the Veloster N, which is loaded with compromises (3 doors, 4 seats, an interior comparable to a prison cell) and now the GRC. I definitely get jealous when I see what the rest of the world gets compared to us here in size obsessed yee haw land.

That being said, you CAN get some things that are marketed as crossovers/SUVs that might as well be hot hatches. The Kona N comes to mind, as do things like the Mercedes GLA 45. I actually test drove a certified BMW X2 M35 before the GRC was announced (you can find them for under 40k, which is a decent deal) and thought that it was great. It has 300 horsepower, all wheel drive, a hell of an exhaust note (the thing was crackling and popping even at lower speeds) and pretty much the same interior dimensions as a GTI.

Would I take one over a GRC? Probably not, because I think a raised seating position takes away a lot of the connection you feel with the road, and I get why a lot of enthusiasts shun everything crossover related, because the crossover/SUV phenomenon is just ridiculous at this point and has given us some truly stupid cars from a design standpoint. BUT…if you don’t care as much about that sort of thing there are options out there that can get you a similar experience.
 

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Re: hot hatches, in the traditional sense you are very much correct. In the US pretty much all we have on offer is the GTI/Golf R, the Civic/CTR (although I think calling their take on it a hatch is a bit generous, it’s more of a shooting brake type of design IMHO), the Veloster N, which is loaded with compromises (3 doors, 4 seats, an interior comparable to a prison cell) and now the GRC. I definitely get jealous when I see what the rest of the world gets compared to us here in size obsessed yee haw land.

That being said, you CAN get some things that are marketed as crossovers/SUVs that might as well be hot hatches. The Kona N comes to mind, as do things like the Mercedes GLA 45. I actually test drove a certified BMW X2 M35 before the GRC was announced (you can find them for under 40k, which is a decent deal) and thought that it was great. It has 300 horsepower, all wheel drive, a hell of an exhaust note (the thing was crackling and popping even at lower speeds) and pretty much the same interior dimensions as a GTI.

Would I take one over a GRC? Probably not, because I think a raised seating position takes away a lot of the connection you feel with the road, and I get why a lot of enthusiasts shun everything crossover related, because the crossover/SUV phenomenon is just ridiculous at this point and has given us some truly stupid cars from a design standpoint. BUT…if you don’t care as much about that sort of thing there are options out there that can get you a similar experience.
Yup, I'm a rally guy and this car really checks all the boxes it's really a proper rally based car, should be a really neat car and why I wanted it to be my next car from my wrx. I love my 2016 WRX but I have never liked the sedan and always wanted a hatch plus I really wanted an STI hatch but without the EJ engine and subaru just continued to not do anything with the STI. I don't understand it but it is what it is...when the WRC went to 1.6l engines subaru decided to not play in that space and stayed in the 2/2.4l space but now looks like they are abandoning that.
 

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Yup, I'm a rally guy and this car really checks all the boxes it's really a proper rally based car, should be a really neat car and why I wanted it to be my next car from my wrx. I love my 2016 WRX but I have never liked the sedan and always wanted a hatch plus I really wanted an STI hatch but without the EJ engine and subaru just continued to not do anything with the STI. I don't understand it but it is what it is...when the WRC went to 1.6l engines subaru decided to not play in that space and stayed in the 2/2.4l space but now looks like they are abandoning that.
This is more or less why I’m smitten with the GRC. I love cars that tell a story and have a heritage. The GRC was born from rallying, and shares technology with Toyota’s actual rally cars…not to mention Akio himself (he’s just such a cool guy and an enthusiast to his core) has played a huge role in the development of the GRC too. And as if all that wasn’t enough…it’s being built in the same factory, by the same people that made the LFA and other Toyota performance legends? I just think it’s so neat lol
 

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Hey guys. This has become a normal topic of discussion here, so we're starting a thread. Please do your best to keep this thread as on topic as possible so that we can easily manage and update this post.

This will be a list of dealerships that are MSRP only dealers. Meaning they do not charge over MSRP or add any additional markups to their vehicles. If you know of any that aren't already on the list, please reply here and we'll add it to the master list.

For a sortable list, @JTBros has created a Google Doc to help keep track! We'll keep it up to date in both places, so that folks who don't want to use their gmail account can still have somewhere to see this list.


MSRP only Dealers

Alabama:

Hoover Toyota
Toyota of Dothan

Arizona:
Precision Toyota AZ

California:
One Toyota
Longo Toyota
Walnut Creek Toyota
Elk Grove Toyota
Sunnyvale Toyota (for my bay area folks)

Connecticut:
Greentree Toyota of Danbury

Minnesota:
MAPLEWOOD Toyota

North Carolina:
Fred Anderson Toyota of Raleigh - Confirmed in writing MSRP only. deposit $500 - Refundable.
Hendrick Toyota Apex - Said MSRP only but wanted $1000 nonrefundable

Oregon:
Damian Lillard Toyota

Pennsylvania:
Bennett Toyota Allentown
Brewer Toyota
Faulkner Toyota
North Hills Toyota Pittsburgh
Performance Toyota
Rohrich Toyota
South Hills Toyota
Team Toyota Langhorne
Tri-County Toyota Limerick

Texas:
Cedar Park Toyota

Washington:
Toyota of Burien
Marysville Toyota

Utah:
Mark Miller Toyota in Salt Lake City

Virginia:
Alexandria Toyota

Dealers with markups

Alabama:
Bill Penney Toyota in Huntsville - Charging $5,000 markup and requiring $2,000 deposits.

California:
Toyota of Downtown LA

New York:
Penn Toyota
Star Toyota
Toyota of Manhattan
Millennium Toyota
Hillside Toyota
Toyota City
Island Toyota
Westbury Toyota
Empire Toyota
Atlantic Toyota
Smithtown Toyota
Sunrise Toyota
Sunrise Toyota North
New Rochelle Toyota
Westchester Toyota (Yonkers)
Prestige Toyota of Ramsey

Connecticut:
Hoffman Toyota
Girard Toyota (are willing to take deposit though)
Toyota of Wallingford
Toyota of Colchester

New Jersey:
Toyota of Hackensack
Dayton Toyota
Shore Toyota (however was only $1.5k on Tacoma TRD Sport)

Pennsylvania:
Sloane Toyota
Koch 33
Glen Mills Toyota-this might just be an out of area thing
York Toyota

North Carolina:
Rice Toyota
Cox Toyota

MD/VA/DE:
Koons Toyota (all of them)
Washington Foothills Toyota, $1000 deposit non refundable, $1999 mark up (standard for every car and wont go up/down regardless of price of car)
 

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It's true. I had them install some rotors on a car I bought recently so I could document it, and they took so much longer than it would have taken me and milked that hourly service rate. Not to knock them completely though, I've had some great experiences at multiple service departments. They're normally the good guys in regard to dealerships lol
I've worked at a number of dealerships, in sales and in management, and believe me there are no good guys. Their sole job is to rob you, and the guys that last in the business are the ones who genuinely enjoy it. The sales department wants to rob the customer and their own sales staff, the service department wants to rob the customer their own techs and the sales department, etc. That's just how it is.
 

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I've worked at a number of dealerships, in sales and in management, and believe me there are no good guys. Their sole job is to rob you, and the guys that last in the business are the ones who genuinely enjoy it. The sales department wants to rob the customer and their own sales staff, the service department wants to rob the customer their own techs and the sales department, etc. That's just how it is.
I believe that. I can say I've been able to make pretty good relationships with some service advisors over the years who really take care of me and my cars, but I do believe that's a rarity in the business. Which is too bad.
 

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Like I’ve commented there are zero dealers in my immediate vicinity (50+ mi, 25+ dealers) that are sticking to MSRP. Unfortunately be prepared to do a lot of calling and potentially a long drive to find one willing to do sticker. If you do call out of your area make sure they’re willing to sell to your zip code. A lot of small town dealers only want to sell local.

Also got a message from someone stating that Michael’s Toyota in Washington is charging $3k ADM now. It’s been updated on my sheet.
FYI that Michael's Toyota has closed their pre-order list as of 4/1. It was also a non-refundable deposit that they required.
 
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