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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
@jimv2013 I totally agree. We were just discussing the iS platform, so I had to chip in my 2 cents. I'd never own one of those or a charger, but I'm happy that they exist, by means of just being another variety of fast car (fast meaning straight line performance, in this context).
Oh absolutely. Different strokes for different folks. Would I daily a big burbling V8? Absolutely not…I don’t want to pay for the gas/insurance and they don’t match my personality. I’m more of a put your head down and let your actions speak for themselves type than a “LOOK AT ME!!” type. In fact I briefly considered a Camaro and all of my friends and family were like “we can’t imagine a car that’s more polar opposite of your personality” haha.

BUT…am I happy this stuff exists? Absolutely. Different strokes for different folks. Variety is the spice of life. If we want car culture to survive and thrive during these rapidly changing times we need to be a welcoming and inclusive community. You like 4 poppers that are boosted to the moon and back? Great! You’re a “there’s no replacement for displacement” dude who owns a Scat Pack? Come on in. Miata is always the answer? You bet it is. You’re into EVs? That works! Off-roading is your deal? I dig your 4Runner! Et cetera.

I think sometimes the car community can be tribal to a fault. People get a little too loyal to certain brands, cars, engines, and the like….but at the end of the day we all get something out of cars and that’s what matters. Really the only crowds that push me to my limit are Brodozer folks and Tesla stans. I think there’s some weird other stuff going on with those sorts of folks and I’m not sure that they share the same motivations that traditional enthusiasts do…but that’s just me.
 

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when I could have a much more unhinged American V8 for way less money
Mmmm.... A part of me still wants to abandon the GRC and get a Gen 3 Coyote Mustang... Handles well, isn't overly expensive, amazing aftermarket support and one of the greatest sounding V8s America has ever produced.
 

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Mmmm.... A part of me still wants to abandon the GRC and get a Gen 3 Coyote Mustang... Handles well, isn't overly expensive, amazing aftermarket support and one of the greatest sounding V8s America has ever produced.
Funny you say that because we do live at a time where most of these cars are in the same price bracket. It’s weird
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
Mmmm.... A part of me still wants to abandon the GRC and get a Gen 3 Coyote Mustang... Handles well, isn't overly expensive, amazing aftermarket support and one of the greatest sounding V8s America has ever produced.
I haven’t driven one but I can say confidently that that engine is a gem. Huge NA power. Sounds amazing. High revving (I think redline is 7200), and also…free revving. In every video I’ve watched of it all it wants to do is smash itself against the rev limiter.

As I said…I couldn’t live with one as a daily, especially living in the city when the gas mileage will be horrid. But as a second car? I’d love one. That or a Camaro LT1. I think that that Camaro trim is the best performance per dollar car on the market today. You can get a barebones one for like 34 or 35k….and have an amazing chassis, a Tremec six speed stick (although the 10 speed is better than people give it credit for), front Brembos, and an LS. No lift shifts too and I think it has an LSD but I could be wrong.

They’ll run around 4 second 0-60s and low 12s in the quarter mile bone stock. For around the price of a well optioned Camry or Accord. Absolutely silly stuff lol.
 

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I want to love it but between the horrible gas mileage, ancient platform, and more luxury oriented driving dynamics I can’t really say I’m super enticed by the IS500. To me it’s basically a Japanese Charger. If you’re looking for a fast, loud, comfortable cruiser I think it’s a great choice but at 60kish the whole package doesn’t really make sense to me when I could have a much more unhinged American V8 for way less money….or get an M335i, RS3, etc.
I'm quite the opposite but that's because I'm not an American muscle guy and I never really go into the high-end Euros other than Porsche. But at the price of the IS500, I'd rather get an old IS F or a used RC F. I'm also not a big displacement guy. I love a good V10 or V8 but 6, 4 and 3 bangers are my bread and butter(maybe a 5 but I've never driven a 5 banger). Plus the IS500, IS F and RC F all only come auto only and while I like a good auto (IS F and RC F had the fastest shifting autos during their debut) it's just not as fun for me when I live in the suburbs and drive mostly unbusy roads. Don't care for the luxury though the ancient platform is what I tend to like most about Toyota
 

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I'm quite the opposite but that's because I'm not an American muscle guy and I never really go into the high-end Euros other than Porsche. But at the price of the IS500, I'd rather get an old IS F or a used RC F. I'm also not a big displacement guy. I love a good V10 or V8 but 6, 4 and 3 bangers are my bread and butter(maybe a 5 but I've never driven a 5 banger). Plus the IS500, IS F and RC F all only come auto only and while I like a good auto (IS F and RC F had the fastest shifting autos during their debut) it's just not as fun for me when I live in the suburbs and drive mostly unbusy roads. Don't care for the luxury though the ancient platform is what I tend to like most about Toyota
They’re more for a different crowd anyways, but the F products definitely have a lot of character.
 

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Mazda has an I6 on the way.
Stellantis just announced their I6.
The Camaro is a horrid* big car with a great drivetrain.
The Mustang is fine, but HUGE for effectively a 2 seater. Not my cup of tea, but I see the appeal.


* Huge like Mustang. Bad visibility. I feel like I am going to dislocate my shoulder when I ride with my arm on the window sill. The trunk on the convertible is tiny, easily ½ the size of my E85 Z4.
 

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Mazda has an I6 on the way.
Stellantis just announced their I6.
The Camaro is a horrid* big car with a great drivetrain.
The Mustang is fine, but HUGE for effectively a 2 seater. Not my cup of tea, but I see the appeal.


* Huge like Mustang. Bad visibility. I feel like I am going to dislocate my shoulder when I ride with my arm on the window sill. The trunk on the convertible is tiny, easily ½ the size of my E85 Z4.
Too bad the Stellantis one is a Stellantis product. Really looking forward to Mazda's next Mazda6
 
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Funny you say that because we do live at a time where most of these cars are in the same price bracket. It’s weird
Yeah. It's weird to think that a V8 powerhouse can be had for the same as the speculated cost of a GRC. The Mustang does get more power, though it's way heavier and only RWD. But my God those engine sounds. I know I'm giving up sound when I go to the GRC and that's probably the biggest thing that makes me sad about it.

I haven’t driven one but I can say confidently that that engine is a gem. Huge NA power. Sounds amazing. High revving (I think redline is 7200), and also…free revving. In every video I’ve watched of it all it wants to do is smash itself against the rev limiter.

As I said…I couldn’t live with one as a daily, especially living in the city when the gas mileage will be horrid. But as a second car? I’d love one. That or a Camaro LT1. I think that that Camaro trim is the best performance per dollar car on the market today. You can get a barebones one for like 34 or 35k….and have an amazing chassis, a Tremec six speed stick (although the 10 speed is better than people give it credit for), front Brembos, and an LS. No lift shifts too and I think it has an LSD but I could be wrong.

They’ll run around 4 second 0-60s and low 12s in the quarter mile bone stock. For around the price of a well optioned Camry or Accord. Absolutely silly stuff lol.
I've driven 2 of the S550 models. A 2015 and a 2019. The '15 was a base GT, no PP or fancy extras, with the old 6speed auto. It was a blast, but it was missing a lot of DD stuff, and the auto was lackluster. The '19 was a GT Premium convertible with a 6MT. Magneride suspension is absolutely the shit. It's amazing tech that works really really well. The transmission felt good, the clutch wasn't overly heavy and, once again, my god the sound. Especially with the top down and the sport exhaust active. Plus, all of that power is just there and ready for you to rip it out of the engine.

So, the one consistent line of thought I've seen when comparing the Camaro to the Mustang is... If you want a Track car, you get a Camaro. It's marginally faster in every single category than the Mustang is. But it's a garbage daily driver. Poor visibility, outdated tech and an uncomfortable interior. The Mustang, while slightly slower, sounds better and has a lot of creature comforts. I personally like the looks like the Mustang more, and I've got a grudge against Chevy in general, so it'd be a no brainer for me. With gas prices the way they are though, I'm happy to drive a 4 banger.
 

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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
Yeah. It's weird to think that a V8 powerhouse can be had for the same as the speculated cost of a GRC. The Mustang does get more power, though it's way heavier and only RWD. But my God those engine sounds. I know I'm giving up sound when I go to the GRC and that's probably the biggest thing that makes me sad about it.


I've driven 2 of the S550 models. A 2015 and a 2019. The '15 was a base GT, no PP or fancy extras, with the old 6speed auto. It was a blast, but it was missing a lot of DD stuff, and the auto was lackluster. The '19 was a GT Premium convertible with a 6MT. Magneride suspension is absolutely the shit. It's amazing tech that works really really well. The transmission felt good, the clutch wasn't overly heavy and, once again, my god the sound. Especially with the top down and the sport exhaust active. Plus, all of that power is just there and ready for you to rip it out of the engine.

So, the one consistent line of thought I've seen when comparing the Camaro to the Mustang is... If you want a Track car, you get a Camaro. It's marginally faster in every single category than the Mustang is. But it's a garbage daily driver. Poor visibility, outdated tech and an uncomfortable interior. The Mustang, while slightly slower, sounds better and has a lot of creature comforts. I personally like the looks like the Mustang more, and I've got a grudge against Chevy in general, so it'd be a no brainer for me. With gas prices the way they are though, I'm happy to drive a 4 banger.
I’ve driven one of the current gen Camaros (sadly it was a V6 but I guess it’s better than a 4 cylinder pony car) and agree with all of this. It’s a very impressive platform IMHO but it would be a nightmare to daily. The visibility is as bad as people say, if not even worse. The interior feels like a rental car. The trunk opening is laughably small. The backseats are totally useless. They cost an arm and a leg to insure. Etc.

It sucks, because I actually think they’re good looking cars (ducks) that are great to drive. But actually living with one would be a nightmare unless it’s a pure track and/or weekend car. It’s clear that people agree too…they aren’t selling any of them and rumor is that it’s about to get canceled again. It’s a shame, because it’s a good platform (the CT4-V Blackwing and ZL1s are as testament to how capable it is) but they made too many sacrifices in the name of style.

I think if you want to daily a pony/muscle car then a Challenger is the best bet. They’re much comfier, their visibility isn’t quite as terrible, and they have a ton of space. I fit in the back seats semi comfortably and I’m 5’10. They’re just softer overall cars. The Mustang is, naturally, the middle ground between the hard/performance edged Camaro and the big cruiser that is the Challenger.

If I had to pick just one I’d go Mustang….although I’ll probably never own any of them so I’m not sure how relevant my opinion is lol
 

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So, I finally stopped lurking in the shadows and signed up for this forum just so I can hop on this thread because I've been in the same boat. Haha. While waiting for the GRC like everyone else, I've been looking at other cars to consider and ended up putting Hyundai N cars on my list. I've been back and forth on which N car I'd get cause they're all not bad vehicles. But I really do want the GRC. I haven't had a fun car in 10 years and since the hint and teases of a GRC coming to the States, I've been itching. Now I'm really invested in getting a new fun car since the GRC official announcement. I have/had a few two-wheel toys that I've been kinda over since I have kids now. I figure having a fun car again right now will be easier to include the family.

@jimv2013 did you get to drive the Kona N? (I apologize if you've mentioned it already and I overlooked it)
 

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So, I finally stopped lurking in the shadows and signed up for this forum just so I can hop on this thread because I've been in the same boat. Haha. While waiting for the GRC like everyone else, I've been looking at other cars to consider and ended up putting Hyundai N cars on my list. I've been back and forth on which N car I'd get cause they're all not bad vehicles. But I really do want the GRC. I haven't had a fun car in 10 years and since the hint and teases of a GRC coming to the States, I've been itching. Now I'm really invested in getting a new fun car since the GRC official announcement. I have/had a few two-wheel toys that I've been kinda over since I have kids now. I figure having a fun car again right now will be easier to include the family.

@jimv2013 did you get to drive the Kona N? (I apologize if you've mentioned it already and I overlooked it)
Welcome aboard!

The Kona N (while I haven't driven one) is apparently quite deserving of the N badge. Surprisingly spry and fun for a crossover. I think savagegeese did a review on one and were surprised at how much they liked it.
 

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Welcome aboard!

The Kona N (while I haven't driven one) is apparently quite deserving of the N badge. Surprisingly spry and fun for a crossover. I think savagegeese did a review on one and were surprised at how much they liked it.
I believe TSP also did a comparison of the Elantra and Kona N. I hate that the Kona is auto only but it's crazy to see a DCT in a crossover
 

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Discussion Starter · #55 · (Edited)
So, I finally stopped lurking in the shadows and signed up for this forum just so I can hop on this thread because I've been in the same boat. Haha. While waiting for the GRC like everyone else, I've been looking at other cars to consider and ended up putting Hyundai N cars on my list. I've been back and forth on which N car I'd get cause they're all not bad vehicles. But I really do want the GRC. I haven't had a fun car in 10 years and since the hint and teases of a GRC coming to the States, I've been itching. Now I'm really invested in getting a new fun car since the GRC official announcement. I have/had a few two-wheel toys that I've been kinda over since I have kids now. I figure having a fun car again right now will be easier to include the family.

@jimv2013 did you get to drive the Kona N? (I apologize if you've mentioned it already and I overlooked it)
It’s all good my friend, and welcome! I have not driven a Kona N but the reviews on it have been very positive. Apparently once you get past the inherent weirdness of a fire breathing CUV it’s a lot of fun. That being said, the space inside it is kind of weird. It’s bigger than a Veloster N backseat wise but it’s actually smaller than an Elantra N. If people (kids, dogs, whatever) are going to be spending any significant chunks of time in the backseats the Elantra is the best choice of the three if you can give up the hatch aspect of the other two.

It also seems as though the consensus is that the Kona N rides much rougher than the Elantra N due to its shorter wheelbase…which is odd, you’d think they’d want the SUV to be the softest of the bunch but apparently it didn’t work out that way. That being said, I wasn’t in love with the seats in the Elantra N and the Kona N gets ones that are less bolstered/more traditional. Also-no stick or sunroof options in the Kona, and you can get both in the other two. If you’re one of the “it has to be manual” folks then I think that rules the Kona out off the bat.

The only one I have personally driven is the Elantra N. I took one out for a rip on Sunday and it’s been haunting me every since. I wrote everything I thought about it here within 90 minutes of finishing up the drive. I stand by all of it other than the fact that I think after letting things marinate I like the car even more than I initially thought I did. The drive was just so memorable and such a raw, emotional experience.

Im going to make a controversial statement and say it’s my favorite overall car I’ve ever driven. Some cars do other stuff better, but as an overall package the N cars offer a combination of things that no one else really does. The steering is super precise, responsive, and well weighted. Frankly the only steering I’ve experienced that Id prefer is that of an NA Miata, which is obviously an icon for how responsive it is. The brakes are incredibly well modulated…they have confidence inspiring stopping power but are progressive and linear. I currently daily a MK7.5 GTI and even after two years of driving it the brakes still do weird stuff to me every now and then…and I really don’t much care for the ALL OR NOTHING-ness of lots of “sporty” brakes. That isn’t an issue with this car, and as soon as you let off the throttle the brakes pre pressurize themselves. That probably has something to do with how smooth they are.

Also, the sound….I have no bloody idea how they made a 4 cylinder sound that good, but they did. When everything is set to full blast it’s a riot. If you blindfolded someone, let them ride along, and told them they were in a serious performance car like a 911 or something they’d probably believe you. Even in normal-ish driving it sounds like you’re on a track. That might not be for everyone, but I sure enjoyed it.

Also, the DCT runs laps around what VW has on offer. Their DSG gearbox is great, but it feels like a torque converter slush box compared to the Hyundai one. When I was on the highway I put it into manual mode and just flipped through gears a few times at random (within reason, didn’t want to over rev a car that was still in the break in period) to see how it did. The shifts were instant, and with everything set to all out they’re really noticeable in a good way.

To make a long story short…I’m still on the list for the GRC but I’m in contact with a few local Hyundai dealers. If I can get an EN in performance blue or cyber gray with the DCT at MSRP (they’re currently selling for 38-40k in my area which is ridiculous) I’ll probably go that route at this point. I’m confident the GRC will be amazing, but I haven’t had a car pull at my heartstrings like the EN did since I was a kid. I think it’s hard to quantify that sort of thing or put a price on it….as long as it isn’t above MSRP 😉
 

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I believe TSP also did a comparison of the Elantra and Kona N. I hate that the Kona is auto only but it's crazy to see a DCT in a crossover
I've watched pretty much all the EN and KN reviews on YT. I have to watch something while I'm putting my newborn to sleep or feeding him haha. It makes sense though that the KN only comes in auto, but at least it's DCT. And the 8spd DCTs in these N cars seem pretty decent. I think I talked myself out of the KN though. I like the seats more in the EN and VN haha.
 

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Welcome aboard!

The Kona N (while I haven't driven one) is apparently quite deserving of the N badge. Surprisingly spry and fun for a crossover. I think savagegeese did a review on one and were surprised at how much they liked it.
Driving it man, it’s just a slightly taller hatch. Lol.
 

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Yeah. It's weird to think that a V8 powerhouse can be had for the same as the speculated cost of a GRC. The Mustang does get more power, though it's way heavier and only RWD. But my God those engine sounds. I know I'm giving up sound when I go to the GRC and that's probably the biggest thing that makes me sad about it.


I've driven 2 of the S550 models. A 2015 and a 2019. The '15 was a base GT, no PP or fancy extras, with the old 6speed auto. It was a blast, but it was missing a lot of DD stuff, and the auto was lackluster. The '19 was a GT Premium convertible with a 6MT. Magneride suspension is absolutely the shit. It's amazing tech that works really really well. The transmission felt good, the clutch wasn't overly heavy and, once again, my god the sound. Especially with the top down and the sport exhaust active. Plus, all of that power is just there and ready for you to rip it out of the engine.

So, the one consistent line of thought I've seen when comparing the Camaro to the Mustang is... If you want a Track car, you get a Camaro. It's marginally faster in every single category than the Mustang is. But it's a garbage daily driver. Poor visibility, outdated tech and an uncomfortable interior. The Mustang, while slightly slower, sounds better and has a lot of creature comforts. I personally like the looks like the Mustang more, and I've got a grudge against Chevy in general, so it'd be a no brainer for me. With gas prices the way they are though, I'm happy to drive a 4 banger.
I have a mustang for sale if you're interested hahaha. Technically it's a Shelby, but the interior is 100% mustang :ROFLMAO: fabulous track car, when Ford ditched the solid rear axle on S550s the straight-line, crowd crashing mustang died. It's a very agile sports car with IFS.
 

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Discussion Starter · #59 ·
I have a mustang for sale if you're interested hahaha. Technically it's a Shelby, but the interior is 100% mustang :ROFLMAO: fabulous track car, when Ford ditched the solid rear axle on S550s the straight-line, crowd crashing mustang died. It's a very agile sports car with IFS.
Both the Mustang and Camaro are legitimate sportscars at this point and they should be treated as such. Enthusiasts that turn their noses up at the current platforms have no idea what they’re talking about. They’re not sloppy drag strip crowd killers anymore. I get why the image of them and other things (lack of practicality, horrid gas mileage, obscene costs to insure, etc.) turn a lot of buyers off but they should still be respected for their track capabilities.

…the Challenger is another story. I think that thing is so freaking dumb and lazy. They’re just nice-ish (the 5.7 liter hemi is a joke compared to the Coyote or LS) V8s crammed into boats that are based on a platform from the early 2000s. They’re legitimately only good in a straight line and only the Scatpack and above are even all that impressive at that….a stock GTI will walk a V6 or RT Challenger or Charger all day every day.

That being said, they do look cool. That much I can’t deny. But the car is an absolute joke underneath the sheet metal.
 

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Both the Mustang and Camaro are legitimate sportscars at this point and they should be treated as such. Enthusiasts that turn their noses up at the current platforms have no idea what they’re talking about. They’re not sloppy drag strip crowd killers anymore. I get why the image of them and other things (lack of practicality, horrid gas mileage, obscene costs to insure, etc.) turn a lot of buyers off but they should still be respected for their track capabilities.

…the Challenger is another story. I think that thing is so freaking dumb and lazy. They’re just nice-ish (the 5.7 liter hemi is a joke compared to the Coyote or LS) V8s crammed into boats that are based on a platform from the early 2000s. They’re legitimately only good in a straight line and only the Scatpack and above are even all that impressive at that….a stock GTI will walk a V6 or RT Challenger or Charger all day every day.

That being said, they do look cool. That much I can’t deny. But the car is an absolute joke underneath the sheet metal.
As I was reading I was thinking "yes, except for the challenger" only to have my mind read later in your statement. The retro look will always be appealing to me and many others, it's an incredible and tasteful reincarnation. Other than that tho, you're 100% right. It won't evolve either, as it'll be replaced by an EV muscle car in 2024.
 
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