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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Japanese Broadcast:


Toyota Broadcast (Japanese):


English Broadcast: Race End


English Broadcast: Race Start


Live Timing:


Toyota Press Release:


Pictures:
Wheel Tire Car Vehicle Hood

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Wheel Tire Vehicle Land vehicle Car
 

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Thanks for this. Good read. I knew there was a push for it a while back, but I haven't seen carbon neutral fuel being discussed by any of the big names in a couple years.
 

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Yeah man, it looks very promising. It also seems like the most realistic form of alternative fuel.
I don't think it will make it to market for general use. Synthetic fuel will still rely on other countries in order to reduce cost, and the cost is still higher than fossil fuels. In order for it to be successful, governments will effectively have to make massive domestic investments to be able to produce it domestically as well as subsidize it so peasants still driving ICE cars will use it.

People are already freaking out about gas prices and people are already searching for alternatives, which is why EV is surging.

More realistically, if it takes off at all, it's going to be produced and consumed by companies who consume large amounts of fuel to stay within environmental regulations; ships, planes, electricity/heat generation, etc.

If it makes down to us peasants, it will likely be very expensive and mainly for enthusiasts.

Once EVs drop to 20k with 200+ mile range (27k currently is the cheapest without tax credit), unless some very bad EV flaws starts surfacing, it will make very little sense for any companies to continue ICE development for the masses (I think there will always be a need for ICE engines, just not for regular people), regardless of fuel type.
 

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I don't think it will make it to market for general use. Synthetic fuel will still rely on other countries in order to reduce cost, and the cost is still higher than fossil fuels. In order for it to be successful, governments will effectively have to make massive domestic investments to be able to produce it domestically as well as subsidize it so peasants still driving ICE cars will use it.
Cost is always an issue for newer tech. As more and more people discover and invest in the tech, the price typically goes down and the process becomes more and more efficient. Carbon Neutral fuel may never be the "new normal" for filling up at the pump thanks to advances in batteries and (hopefully) hydrogen, but it's cost will almost definitely come down to something usable by your average Joe eventually, even if that might be your solidly middle class average Joe.

Or maybe I'm letting the optimist in me taint my view too much. Lol.
 

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I don't think it will make it to market for general use. Synthetic fuel will still rely on other countries in order to reduce cost, and the cost is still higher than fossil fuels. In order for it to be successful, governments will effectively have to make massive domestic investments to be able to produce it domestically as well as subsidize it so peasants still driving ICE cars will use it.

People are already freaking out about gas prices and people are already searching for alternatives, which is why EV is surging.

More realistically, if it takes off at all, it's going to be produced and consumed by companies who consume large amounts of fuel to stay within environmental regulations; ships, planes, electricity/heat generation, etc.

If it makes down to us peasants, it will likely be very expensive and mainly for enthusiasts.

Once EVs drop to 20k with 200+ mile range (27k currently is the cheapest without tax credit), unless some very bad EV flaws starts surfacing, it will make very little sense for any companies to continue ICE development for the masses (I think there will always be a need for ICE engines, just not for regular people), regardless of fuel type.
It just all depends, because in the long run, if you can still keep cars on the road using ice, it’s beneficial. You would still have fuel stations for example instead of building new ones. You’re essentially just replacing the fuel to power your vehicle, you’re not building a whole new platform, creating new stations and so on.

It’s pretty common for people to say, “Once EVs become more affordable…” but technically you could apply the same theory with synthetics.

Matt Farah was sharing how terrible the network is, how you can only use certain chargers, charging stations being in weird places, people with EVs sometimes just park in charging stalls without charging, charging stations being down for months, etc. there’s actually a lot that goes into these things that people don’t consider. Overall, they’re great options for daily commutes, but as a “end all be all” form of transportation idk.
 

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It just all depends, because in the long run, if you can still keep cars on the road using ice, it’s beneficial. You would still have fuel stations for example instead of building new ones. You’re essentially just replacing the fuel to power your vehicle, you’re not building a whole new platform, creating new stations and so on.

It’s pretty common for people to say, “Once EVs become more affordable…” but technically you could apply the same theory with synthetics.

Matt Farah was sharing how terrible the network is, how you can only use certain chargers, charging stations being in weird places, people with EVs sometimes just park in charging stalls without charging, charging stations being down for months, etc. there’s actually a lot that goes into these things that people don’t consider. Overall, they’re great options for daily commutes, but as a “end all be all” form of transportation idk.
Not to mention: even when EV's drop in price, there's going to be people keeping their ICE's and not getting EV's for a long time which synthetic fuels would help
 

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It just all depends, because in the long run, if you can still keep cars on the road using ice, it’s beneficial. You would still have fuel stations for example instead of building new ones. You’re essentially just replacing the fuel to power your vehicle, you’re not building a whole new platform, creating new stations and so on.

It’s pretty common for people to say, “Once EVs become more affordable…” but technically you could apply the same theory with synthetics.

Matt Farah was sharing how terrible the network is, how you can only use certain chargers, charging stations being in weird places, people with EVs sometimes just park in charging stalls without charging, charging stations being down for months, etc. there’s actually a lot that goes into these things that people don’t consider. Overall, they’re great options for daily commutes, but as a “end all be all” form of transportation idk.
My point wasn't to compare ICE or EV in any practical manner. I agree that keeping ICE cars, especially old ones, on the road as long as possible is beneficial. I also agree that the EV network has a lot of room for improvement (I assume, I don't own an EV, lol) - but there is no doubt that with the government committing funds to building more charging stations, that the network will only improve with time.

The point is more that it will probably not be affordable to us every day drivers. If you look at the Toyota "primer", their roadmap literally starts in 2030 and results in "self-sustaining commercialization" in 2040. A lot can happen by 2040...and EV demand definitely exceeds their predictions made in 2017. This is also specific to Japan - a lot more doable for a country 1/26 the size of the USA. They can probably literally flip the switch on fuel type overnight and avoid any cross contamination issues if there are any. Also, their needs are a bit different than other countries given that they have to plan for frequent natural disasters - being able to produce and stock their own fuel is very important. While it is written in a way to say all ICE could use it, it is implied to be specific to industrial and commercial uses (likely the only industries willing to pay for environmental credits).

This primer is likely written for other countries (especially sense it is in English...). They need to convince other countries to commit to make it worth it. Till then, this is not too different than "NEW SOLAR INNOVATION, PANELS ARE 50% EFFICIENT!!!" "NEW GRAPHENE BATTERIES LAST FOREVER WITH A POWER LEVEL OF OVER 9000!!". So far, it sounds like they're only producing small qualities of fuel for science and publicity.
 

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Japan is also lot less embedded car culture. Theres a large number, maybe even majority of people who do not have or even know how to drive a car. Licensing is more rigorous, tax and regulations on owning a car is also high. And the way regulations are set up it encourages not having an old car. Public transportation is so good there isnt a need for most people.
indeed interesting times, wonder if ill be alive when it switches almost completely away from ice. Maybe theyll be networks of wireless charging parking pads everywhere that also bill you wirelessly automatically. If theyre frequent and fast enough, means almost limitless range.
 
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