GR86 vs. GR Corolla Heritage
- Status
1 - 20 of 44 Posts
I believe the GRC is more unique. Of course it has direct Corolla lineage since it uses a Corolla chassis, but it is more of a newer Celica GT-Four than anything.
Let's look at the facts:
AE86 - came in coupe or hatch, RWD, lightweight/barebones car, with N/A short stroke and high revving engine with Yamaha design (4A-GE)
FR-S/86/GR86 - coupe only, RWD, lightweight, N/A high revving, square engine - This car's development from the beginning was, fun lightweight rwd sports car and incorporated into its design was a callback or say fan service to the AE86.
Celica GT-Four - hatch, awd, turbo engine with strong internals capable of holding high hp comparable to its size - Created to compete in WRC
GRC - hatch, AWD, turbo engine ( possibly also strong internals capable of holding hp comparable to its size) - Beginning with the GRY was built to compete in WRC
Let's look at the facts:
AE86 - came in coupe or hatch, RWD, lightweight/barebones car, with N/A short stroke and high revving engine with Yamaha design (4A-GE)
FR-S/86/GR86 - coupe only, RWD, lightweight, N/A high revving, square engine - This car's development from the beginning was, fun lightweight rwd sports car and incorporated into its design was a callback or say fan service to the AE86.
Celica GT-Four - hatch, awd, turbo engine with strong internals capable of holding high hp comparable to its size - Created to compete in WRC
GRC - hatch, AWD, turbo engine ( possibly also strong internals capable of holding hp comparable to its size) - Beginning with the GRY was built to compete in WRC
Joined
·
3,518 Posts
So I actually talked about this long ago on here, and it’s something that always interested me.
Technically yes. The GR Corolla is the actual line descendant of the AE86 platform as that car was a Corolla. You have some people argue that it was RWD though but the line itself continued on and changed over time. (AE91,
92, 100, 101, 110, 111 etc)
There was also never a car called officially the AE86. So the twins are spiritual successors but share no relation.
Joined
·
3,518 Posts
It wasn’t called AE86, it’s name was the Corolla Levin/GTS or Sprinter Trueno.
It can’t be a new Celica when it’s a Corolla and the Corolla has its own history too. The Yaris would be a Spiritual successor to the Celica.
That’s like the Civic Type R wasn’t originally a 4 door, turbo 4 car but evolved into it. Same thing with the 210. You can’t skip the other Levin/Trueno’s etc just because they weren’t RWD 😂
Duh it's not a Celica, which is why I said the GRC is unique.
If you want to be precise, of course it's not a Celica and of course it's a Corolla, that's the name it's going to come with.
But to say they had Corolla in mind at all when they designed the GRY, would be silly.
This is simply the chassis it ended up in. It wouldn't make sense to bring over the actual GRY when it likely would've cost a ton of money to make it meet US safety standards, plus the fact that a 2-door wouldn't sell as well as a 4-door.
The GRC shares nothing powertrain-wise with the car it shares a nameplate with.
The Civic Type R at least shares the fact that it uses a K-series engine like past Civic Si and Type Rs.
The 86 design was a call back to what the AE86 was, a lightweight, RWD, high-revving N/A car.
Joined
·
3,518 Posts
Well that's actually the same thing that happened with the AE86 🤣
The GR Corolla even borrows the awd system from the Yaris like the WRC Corolla borrowing the Celica's awd system and the XRS borrowed the whole drivetrain from a Celica.
The 86 is a great car but doesn't share any relation to the old car. Remember the old car wasn't called a "AE86" it was a Corolla Levin/GTS/Sprinter Trueno.
The CTR actually doesn't share the same engine as the first CTR (It had a B series) but its still a Civic, the GR Corolla is a Corolla. lol.
Civic - That's because the K series wasn't out yet. But once it was out, it has been used in the Si or Type R.
86 - Since the beginning, both Akio Toyoda and Tetsuya Tada have said that the new 86 was inspired by the AE86.
Joined
·
3,518 Posts
Actually the FRS/GT86 was inspired by 3 cars, 2000gt styling, Sports 800 boxer engine, AE86 chassis affordability and drive layout. After Scion died they tried to just capitalize on the AE86 portion. Thats just marketing, that's also why they say it's the "Spiritual Successor."
The original Corolla wasn't really a "Sports car" per say anyways. Besides that the line continued past that and became FWD. You can't act like the other cars didn't happen. Similar to the Celica, the line became FWD.
Like I said line successor is the E210, spiritual successor is the twins, direct successor was the AE91/92 FWD cars.
When the CEO and chief engineer have said it from the beginning, it's seems like more than just marketing. You said it only started when "Scion died". Scion (U.S./Canada only) ended in 2016 whereas the car is called GT86/86 in other countries since 2012 and been called FT86 since internal development started.
Joined
·
3,518 Posts
I understand that but it is marketing. Like I said originally, I'm not denying its the "Spiritual successor" to the AE86 chassis, its just not the successor. It's inspired by, but is not the line successor. In the same way Toyota said the GR Yaris is the "Spiritual Successor" to the GT-Four Celica.
Even on the website they say:
"The GR Corolla sprang to life based on the strong desire of Toyota President Akio Toyoda,
a.k.a. Morizo, to “bring back a Corolla that captivates our customers”
"Since its birth in 1966, the Corolla has evolved throughout its generations into a variety of sedans, wagons, hatchbacks, and SUVs to meet the changing lifestyles of Toyota customers over time."
The E210 chassis is also chronological to all the previous Corolla chassis.
Spiritually I'd say the GRY follows the Celica and the GRC follows the Caldina. I know we never got the Caldina here but the GRC has the same relationship to the GRY that the Caldina had to the Celica.
I think we both agree, it's the spiritual successor, not the actual lineage. Wasn't trying to sound disagreeable.
But my take, maybe I didn't explain as much, is that the whole "spiritual successor" thing means a lot with both the GR86 and GRC/GRY. Especially with the enthusiasts and people who actually buy the cars, if I was the same age/place in my life in the mid-80s- early-90s, I would have bought an AE86 as I would buy a Celica GT-Four, just like I bought an FR-S/ would buy a GR86 or GR Corolla.
Joined
·
3,518 Posts
I apologize if I came off strong as well, I actually owned a FRS and love the platform.
Just saying though, in the 80s the Celica during the AE86 Corolla’s release was a RWD sports car similar to what the GR86 was (not to forget it almost always shared a platform with the Supra) and the Corolla was a performance model based on its econobox roots.
Overall its great to see the Corolla line get its due praise!
Joined
·
3,518 Posts
The AE line became FWD and AWD like the Celica. So technically the E210 is the line successor. Succeeds the AE111 and E120 XRS.
Joined
·
3,518 Posts
This is actually a very interesting topic because your suspicions are valid. I use to have these conversations in AE86 groups and with Guff.
Toyota likes to pick and choose certain aspects of their history to market vehicles, but to a point where it does become confusing!! 😂
Joined
·
180 Posts
+1
Spec wise, the GRC is more of a successor to the Celica GT-Four but from a model name, the GR Corolla is successor to the Corolla GT-S (AE86). IMO, it was just the timing from when Toyota announced the Toyota 86 as the successor to the Corolla GT-S based on some of the ingredients of the 86 in similarity to the GT-S; NA engine, 2+2, RWD.
The GRC has taken lineage of both the Corolla name, combined it with the Celica GT-Four specs and bundled it into one. A lot rumors flooded about the return of a Toyota Celica and here we are essentially witnessing it now.
Joined
·
3,518 Posts
Those rumors were more from enthusiasts after Toyota trademarked the Celica name though. Which the Celica always was a sports car/GT car. Toyota did say the Yaris is the spiritual successor though, not the Corolla. (3 door rally car)
I wish we got the Celica over the Supra honestly.
The GR86 has a color called Trueno Blue, and the some E210 sedans In China are called the Corolla Levin. There is also lightning strikes in some of the GR Corolla ads, which I suspect is referencing the Levin as well.
There was also the FX-16 GT-S alongside the AE86.
The Corolla was used for a WRC rally car after the ST205, but at the time homologation cars weren't required I believe, or the requirements had changed.
So, it's really is kind of all over the place.
There was also the FX-16 GT-S alongside the AE86.
The Corolla was used for a WRC rally car after the ST205, but at the time homologation cars weren't required I believe, or the requirements had changed.
So, it's really is kind of all over the place.
1 - 20 of 44 Posts
- Status
Join the discussion
