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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm interested if people have an opinion on what EVs are fun?

I've been looking for something to help with very short trips - like short enough that the typical engine doesn't reach operating temperature. I usually just walk to minimize the wear and tear of the engine, not to mention the price of gas. In my town, I think I can charge an EV for FREE. So basically free gas?! Yes please, lol.

Anyways...

I've been considering everything....a bike DIY modded with an electric engine...a scooter/moped...a motorcycle...and of course, a car.

Anyone had the same dilemma? What did you come up with?
 

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Been DD’ing a Leaf for 8 years now. Been the most reliable vehicle I have ever owned, virtual no maintenance out of 12v’s that you really need to replace every 36 months. It doesn’t care if you go 1/2 mile or 30. It has quick acceleration from a light up to about 40-45 mph, tops out at 93/94 mph. It also doesn’t weigh what a Tesla does, low 3000 pound range and the batteries are all in the floor so the center of mass is great. It’s actually pretty fun to drive for what it is. I don’t mean fun to drive like a 6MT ICE Vehicle, not at all. It’s fun to drive for a go cart and actually handles quite well. I’ve had it on 3 wheels a number of times pushing it around corners.

I got it for the exact reason you stated. My house is pretty close to my office, real close and I have 35 panels on the roof so I’ve never spent any money on fueling it. Fuel is essentially free, or pennies on the dollar. But in the winter when the wind is 20 mph, or most of the year when it’s humid AF, well I’ve walked there, MTB, rode my skateboard, ridden my scooter, and still prefer to take the car so i don’t arrive in my office environment all sweaty. Plus I like to split around 1, run home feed the Mal, take her outside to do her business and I’m back in the cube 30 minutes later.

It’s become a great donkey in the fleet. I do all my mundane bs driving in it. I’ve loaded with over 20 bags of mulch before I had my truck. I use it for any bumper to bumper boring mundane stuff like grocery trips, driving to the gym, errands for the house, etc. Can be had cheap too. You want a 2013 on up for heating system changes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Been DD’ing a Leaf for 8 years now...
Wow - thanks for sharing your experience! Very insightful. I've been struggling with the Leaf - such a great little car on paper! But the discontinuation of CHAdeMO is making me hesitate hard. I'm debating between the Leaf and the Cooper SE (or just going the cheap route and getting a Niu scooter, lol).
 

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Wow - thanks for sharing your experience! Very insightful. I've been struggling with the Leaf - such a great little car on paper! But the discontinuation of CHAdeMO is making me hesitate hard. I'm debating between the Leaf and the Cooper SE (or just going the cheap route and getting a Niu scooter, lol).
You don’t need public charging. In 8 years I’ve used chademo probably a dozen times total. Once you have L2 in your own garage, you really DON’T want to use any public charging infrastructure. The Randys and Karens will park their shat and go eat or something, and brick the chargers. It sucks. I don’t even bother with it anymore.
 

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I got the base rav4 prime last year for 40k and with the tax credit turns out to be 32,500. Pretty quick for what it is and not to bad to rip around some dirt roads. I think my wife only filled it up 4 times in 6 months/ 6k miles. But we really don't need the gas option in that car. So I'll probably get the b4zx/soterra or ioniq 5 this year and trade the rav in for the GRC.
 

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I've been keeping an eye on Alpha Motors Inc. I don't know if they're any fun to drive, but they look like they'd be a lot of fun. If they do get produced, I might check them out, especially at the price point they're claiming.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks again everyone! I ended up deciding on three things:

For immediate use, I ordered a couple of electric scooters for $600 each to see how we like it.
Meanwhile, I'm going to keep an eye out for any 2013 Leafs go on the market for a reasonable price.
If I never find a good leaf and the scooters satisfy the need, I might spend a bit more for a better scooter and then wait till 2024 for the new EV Mini Cooper.
 

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Thanks again everyone! I ended up deciding on three things:

For immediate use, I ordered a couple of electric scooters for $600 each to see how we like it.
Meanwhile, I'm going to keep an eye out for any 2013 Leafs go on the market for a reasonable price.
If I never find a good leaf and the scooters satisfy the need, I might spend a bit more for a better scooter and then wait till 2024 for the new EV Mini Cooper.
Definitely let us know if you go the leaf route... I recently shortened my trip to work from 80 miles round trip to about 15 miles round trip and have been considering a Nissan Leaf or Chevy Bolt as a daily commuter. My biggest problem is just driveway space and money. I could technically afford it, but do I really want to?

EDIT: There are a handful on Carvana right now for under $15k. I don't really know what they're worth, but here's one to check out.

 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Definitely let us know if you go the leaf route... I recently shortened my trip to work from 80 miles round trip to about 15 miles round trip and have been considering a Nissan Leaf or Chevy Bolt as a daily commuter. My biggest problem is just driveway space and money. I could technically afford it, but do I really want to?

EDIT: There are a handful on Carvana right now for under $15k. I don't really know what they're worth, but here's one to check out.

Space and money are definitely huge considerations, lol. It's a big dilemma.

I don't think a used Leaf really makes sense though unless you can find one for around 6-7k. After tax incentives, a new Leaf is like 20k. 10-15k for an older and lesser spec Leaf is...no good, lol. I would rather pay the 5-10k more for a new vehicle just for the warranty, new batteries, and more modern tech.

If Nissan announces a CHAdeMO to CSS adaptor, I would definitely consider the Leaf a lot more (would be willing to buy a new one, or adjust the price range for a used one to 10k), but without it, Leaf is going to plummet in resale value and it doesn't sit too well with me.

If they hadn't just teased the new EV Mini Cooper (a redesign specific for EV, as opposed to the SE which is basically the ICE shell converted for EV), I would probably still be stewing over the Cooper SE, lol. Would be around $25k after rebates. I've secretly always wanted a Mini, but they're so impractical, lol.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks for sharing! I imagine it's going to be very similar to the EV6 GT, so at least 58-62k. I'm definitely keeping an eye out - I had the chance to buy a Limited Ioniq 5, but I ended up passing because I'm not super duper comfortable with getting a first gen EV.

I'm currently trying to order a Cooper SE. Range is terrible, but it is one of the lightest EV cars available
 

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That Hyundai Ioniq 5 N version looks like it'd be fun, but I bet it's going to be pricey
I genuinely think Hyundai/Kia have made a great product with that platform. The Ioniq has pretty much gotten rave reviews across the board and a friend of my neighbors has an EV6 that shows up on my street every week or two. I must say…it looks amazing in person. It’s a pretty striking car.

But I just don’t think they hit the mark on pricing. A decently equipped version of either (AWD/dual motor) is 50-60k MSRP, and I’m sorry…but the tax credit deal isn’t the same as the car just being $7500 cheaper no matter how much they try to tell you it is. Waiting a year to get that money back is significant when it comes to budgeting, and I’m sure actually filing it is a royal pain in the ass like all US tax stuff is.

Plus, you get to deal with the famous Hyundai/Kia dealership experience! No manufacturers are currently seeing bigger ADM markups than they are, and if you have enough self control to avoid storming out of the building when working with their “salesmen” you’re stronger than I am. I’ve tried to look at Hyundais (a Kona several years ago and the N products recently) multiple times and everyone I interacted with could have learned a few lessons in decency from your average fraternity douche. They’re THAT bad, and if you scour the interwebs there are pages upon pages of people telling similar horror stories.

So yeah…they seem neat, but 50k+ and having to deal with their stealerships makes em a firm no dice from me. Fun electric cars are going to need to get cheaper before they really pique my interest, and most manufacturers have basically said “we can’t/won’t make EVs that are affordable” at this stage. Maybe in a few years I’ll make the switch, as I do care about my carbon footprint and definitely see some of the befits EVs offer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
It's probably a regional thing - my experience with Hyundai hasn't been bad. I've interacted with various Hyundai dealerships in two different time frames; almost 10 years ago when I bought the Veloster Turbo, and now about the Ioniq. Generally responsive and courteous - honestly, a bit more so than my experience with Mini at the moment; it's like pulling teeth trying to buy a car from Mini.

Oh, the handful of Hyundai dealerships I spoke with didn't charge ADM.
 

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But I just don’t think they hit the mark on pricing. A decently equipped version of either (AWD/dual motor) is 50-60k MSRP, and I’m sorry…but the tax credit deal isn’t the same as the car just being $7500 cheaper no matter how much they try to tell you it is. Waiting a year to get that money back is significant when it comes to budgeting, and I’m sure actually filing it is a royal pain in the ass like all US tax stuff is.
This is the part I've never understood. The government could just subsidize $7500 of each EV produced and tell manufacturer that, in order to receive that $7500 per car, they have to knock that off the final MSRP price. You can set your actual MSRP at 37500, then have it slashed through at 30,000 "out the door." Or give the money to the manufacturer when the car sells, and take the 7500 off the price at the time of sale. There are any number of ways it could be done better than a tax credit. When tons of folks are living paycheck to paycheck, the idea of investing $7500 and getting it back in a year isn't a really great selling point.

I'd be a lot more likely to go buy an EV if I could get 7500 off out the door.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
There are any number of ways it could be done better than a tax credit. When tons of folks are living paycheck to paycheck, the idea of investing $7500 and getting it back in a year isn't a really great selling point.
There are many answers to this question...

But the simplest answer is... the EV incentive is intentionally crafted to favor the rich (who don't need the incentive). As a tax credit, only those who pay at least $7500 in federal taxes can take full advantage of the incentive.

Legislation might originally have an altruistic origin (such as incentivizing EV and strengthening our country by reducing our dependence on foreign energy... while also considering the Earth's future and stability for humans), but such altruism is usually quickly diluted and corrupted for non-altruistic agendas. When it's all said and day, most things are a shadow of their original intent.

So yeah, it can definitely be done better...but it is intentionally not. We can't even get the newest bill passed that would expand and increase those credits.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
The thought of "fun" and "ev" in the same sentence seems counterintuitive, unless it's something crazy fast like the Tesla Plaid. Or a golf cart after a 12 pack.
That's because most EVs are built with 'luxury' in mind, instead of driving experience. Most people value comfort - soft suspension and effortless steering - and because EVs are heavy due to today's battery technology, you basically have a comfortable ride that can go really fast really quickly.

I'm considering the Mini because the Cooper SE basically retains the same driving feel as the Cooper S; which people love and consider fun. This came at a cost of range - to keep the weight from ballooning like all other EVs, it only has a range of about 100 miles; half the range of most EVs.

I think we'll see a lot more fun EVs in the future as battery tech improves.

Also, scooters are really fun, lol. I'm really toying with the idea of an electric moped / motorcycle.
 

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That's because most EVs are built with 'luxury' in mind, instead of driving experience. Most people value comfort - soft suspension and effortless steering - and because EVs are heavy due to today's battery technology, you basically have a comfortable ride that can go really fast really quickly.

I'm considering the Mini because the Cooper SE basically retains the same driving feel as the Cooper S; which people love and consider fun. This came at a cost of range - to keep the weight from ballooning like all other EVs, it only has a range of about 100 miles; half the range of most EVs.

I think we'll see a lot more fun EVs in the future as battery tech improves.

Also, scooters are really fun, lol. I'm really toying with the idea of an electric moped / motorcycle.
I didn't know that about the Cooper SE. I'll have to look into that. Thanks!
 
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