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Crisis of Faith

9K views 56 replies 23 participants last post by  TurboGT 
#1 ·
Guys... it's finally happening to me. I think I'm forgetting why I should be excited about this car. When I first put myself on the list, I thought: "This car is the dream. It's just everything I've ever wanted." But now... I'm not so sure. Here's what I'm fixating on:
1. I like (love?) the driving feel of older Corollas (1983 - 2005 era) but I've driven a 2022 Corolla sedan and friends, let me say, it is not interesting at all. What if the GRC turns out to handle just like a Corolla? It's not like we can drive it before we sign the cheque...
2. Tail-happiness... is it a myth? In the summer I daily a Miata. It's not quick but it is a blast to slide around. I've seen lots online that suggests that the GRY doesn't have good drift dynamics and especially not in "sport" mode. That scares me... I have believed that the GR-four system was a the saviour of the front to rear AWD systems. But if putting 70% to the rear does nothing to make it "rear-wheel-drive-esque" then WHY am I committing to this 1.5 toasters clutch pack that most people are expecting to blow the heck up every 60 thousand k or so? Can't I just buy an old Matrix and get just as far? Or one of the billions of AWD crossovers out there?
3. Premium... I don't like spending money on gas. Nuff said.
4. What about the shifter!? What if it is more F-150 than CTR? Most manual transmissions I could live without. But I would NEVER, NEVER, NEVER (etc) NEVER want to swap my Miata transmission for an auto. Just no. But how do I know this car is nice to shift? People don't seem to get excited about the GRY gearbox. Why am I assuming that it's going to be a good (or great) gearbox? Am I a sheep?
5. Visibility. I can't get in a XSE and look around. Why? The dealers around here have like 3 cars on their lots and they are all SUVs. It's important to me that I don't feel like I'm driving a tank from out of a gunslit. There is no way to know what the driver's "awareness" of the corners of the vehicle is going to be. It could be like my 87' golf or it could be like a cargo van. Who knows?

I guess I just want it to be fun to drive but people keep saying "It's a corolla, I don't know why we are surprised to see that it's 80% understeer and 20% body roll. If you want fun get an 86."

So... tell me that it's going to be ok. Tell me these Toyota engineers understand what I (we) want and can deliver it.
 
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#3 ·
I think you guys really really really need to test drive one before parting with your money. I suggest you actually sit in the standard Corolla and it doesn't take much imagination to visualise the GR version. Some of you will not get past that stage and will not even need to drive it.
 
#6 ·
I dont think most dealers are going to have one to “test drive” most of them for a good while will probably be sold before they even arrive at the dealership. I don’t think Toyota sends “test vehicles” the same way that ford does.
 
#4 ·
Guys... it's finally happening to me. I think I'm forgetting why I should be excited about this car. When I first put myself on the list, I thought: "This car is the dream. It's just everything I've ever wanted." But now... I'm not so sure. Here's what I'm fixating on:
1. I like (love?) the driving feel of older Corollas (1983 - 2005 era) but I've driven a 2022 Corolla sedan and friends, let me say, it is not interesting at all. What if the GRC turns out to handle just like a Corolla? It's not like we can drive it before we sign the cheque...
2. Tail-happiness... is it a myth? In the summer I daily a Miata. It's not quick but it is a blast to slide around. I've seen lots online that suggests that the GRY doesn't have good drift dynamics and especially not in "sport" mode. That scares me... I have believed that the GR-four system was a the saviour of the front to rear AWD systems. But if putting 70% to the rear does nothing to make it "rear-wheel-drive-esque" then WHY am I committing to this 1.5 toasters clutch pack that most people are expecting to blow the heck up every 60 thousand k or so? Can't I just buy an old Matrix and get just as far? Or one of the billions of AWD crossovers out there?
3. Premium... I don't like spending money on gas. Nuff said.
4. What about the shifter!? What if it is more F-150 than CTR? Most manual transmissions I could live without. But I would NEVER, NEVER, NEVER (etc) NEVER want to swap my Miata transmission for an auto. Just no. But how do I know this car is nice to shift? People don't seem to get excited about the GRY gearbox. Why am I assuming that it's going to be a good (or great) gearbox? Am I a sheep?
5. Visibility. I can't get in a XSE and look around. Why? The dealers around here have like 3 cars on their lots and they are all SUVs. It's important to me that I don't feel like I'm driving a tank from out of a gunslit. There is no way to know what the driver's "awareness" of the corners of the vehicle is going to be. It could be like my 87' golf or it could be like a cargo van. Who knows?

I guess I just want it to be fun to drive but people keep saying "It's a corolla, I don't know why we are surprised to see that it's 80% understeer and 20% body roll. If you want fun get an 86."

So... tell me that it's going to be ok. Tell me these Toyota engineers understand what I (we) want and can deliver it.
Well it depends man, because what we want, might not be what we the engineers visualized. lol. All I know so far from the pov videos is it won't feel like a rwd car. In a lot of ways, some of the charm that comes from old sporty Corollas, is the fact that they're Corollas.

If you can get past the shortcomings, I think this car will have its own character and end up being fun. Only way this car won't be good is if you imagined it to be something else.
 
#11 ·
This is really what it comes down to. We've waited months for driving impressions and these questions have been just growing in the dark. Sadly, they can't (or haven't) been lending them out for reviews on dirt and snow which seems to me is the environment where the GR-four would really show its colours. But I'll be very keen to see what the YouTube car people think.
 
#10 ·
Guys... it's finally happening to me. I think I'm forgetting why I should be excited about this car. When I first put myself on the list, I thought: "This car is the dream. It's just everything I've ever wanted." But now... I'm not so sure. Here's what I'm fixating on:
1. I like (love?) the driving feel of older Corollas (1983 - 2005 era) but I've driven a 2022 Corolla sedan and friends, let me say, it is not interesting at all. What if the GRC turns out to handle just like a Corolla? It's not like we can drive it before we sign the cheque...
2. Tail-happiness... is it a myth? In the summer I daily a Miata. It's not quick but it is a blast to slide around. I've seen lots online that suggests that the GRY doesn't have good drift dynamics and especially not in "sport" mode. That scares me... I have believed that the GR-four system was a the saviour of the front to rear AWD systems. But if putting 70% to the rear does nothing to make it "rear-wheel-drive-esque" then WHY am I committing to this 1.5 toasters clutch pack that most people are expecting to blow the heck up every 60 thousand k or so? Can't I just buy an old Matrix and get just as far? Or one of the billions of AWD crossovers out there?
3. Premium... I don't like spending money on gas. Nuff said.
4. What about the shifter!? What if it is more F-150 than CTR? Most manual transmissions I could live without. But I would NEVER, NEVER, NEVER (etc) NEVER want to swap my Miata transmission for an auto. Just no. But how do I know this car is nice to shift? People don't seem to get excited about the GRY gearbox. Why am I assuming that it's going to be a good (or great) gearbox? Am I a sheep?
5. Visibility. I can't get in a XSE and look around. Why? The dealers around here have like 3 cars on their lots and they are all SUVs. It's important to me that I don't feel like I'm driving a tank from out of a gunslit. There is no way to know what the driver's "awareness" of the corners of the vehicle is going to be. It could be like my 87' golf or it could be like a cargo van. Who knows?

I guess I just want it to be fun to drive but people keep saying "It's a corolla, I don't know why we are surprised to see that it's 80% understeer and 20% body roll. If you want fun get an 86."

So... tell me that it's going to be ok. Tell me these Toyota engineers understand what I (we) want and can deliver it.
I currently daily drive a '21 corolla hatchback and the visibility is great with a nice airy greenhouse (in the front).

Can't speak on the sedan dynamics but the hatch has decent bones and it's surprisingly fun to toss around (but not quick at all). I know some Toyota employees who rally/track a gutted hatchback and they have tons of fun.. Based on the fact that the GRC is only coming to us in the hatchback variant and not the sedan, I would offer that all the extra weld points and adhesive will make this a GREAT platform.
 
#13 ·
Sadly, I feel that most if not all of the reviews will be biased positive, since Toyota paid for everything for the event (flights, hotels and possibly food).
Too bad Chris Harris wasn't invited because he generally tells it like it is.
If a journalist gives the GR a negative review he or she would probably not be invited back to review more Toyota's.
Unfortunately it is what it is.
No unbiased reviews coming, and we need those kind if reviews to determine if the GR Corolla is right for us.
Toyota should bring in demo cars at least to the largest markets, for example in Canada...Toronto, Vancouver, montreal, Calgary, Edmonton, Etc.
 
#14 ·
I feel that most if not all of the reviews will be biased positive
I generally take a lot of reviews with a grain of salt for this reason. The one I'm really most looking forward to as far as critical-ness goes is savagegeese. They absolutely don't hold back when it comes to reviews.
 
#19 ·
I hear ya. I guess it depends on expectations of what you're hoping they say. Anyone says "best car ever made, nothing wrong with it" likely isn't worth their weight.

Pretty much hoping to get a good impression of ambiance, sounds, view from Topher with his binaural mics. SG often has engineering components to explain some pros/cons. TH has had the car for days for livability and it sounds like they're doing comparisons.

I understand everyone is likely looking to get something different out of this car. For me, I'm looking for a practical 4 door and AWD Toyota that I can have fun in and will fit a car seat. I don't have the skills nor desire to post ridiculous lap times so I'm not looking to min/max the car.
That’s true.

For me this car is exactly what it is, a hot Corolla. Which means it can be whatever you want it to be, but I expect it to be softer and forgiving for daily commutes.

That alone is special in its own way. I just don’t want people to hate the car because it doesn’t live up to the insane hype built.
 
#20 ·
That’s true.

For me this car is exactly what it is, a hot Corolla. Which means it can be whatever you want it to be, but I expect it to be softer and forgiving for daily commutes.

That alone is special in its own way. I just don’t want people to hate the car because it doesn’t live up to the insane hype built.
Cheers bruv! Let's hope for a good Wednesday and if so, decent dealers!
 
#26 ·
I'm hoping the GR Corolla turns out to be at least 90% of what the GR Yaris is.
I've seen numerous reviews and videos on the Yaris, our forbidden fruit, and pretty well know it's capabilities.
Let's hope the GR Corolla is almost as good.
I followed the GRY since it’s development was leaked worldwide, like many here. If it’s 80% it will be good enough because it’s the only option we get in NA. The Golf R is the only competitor and it can only send 50% to the rear. All the GRC needs to do is get close to the GRY and think everyone will be happy. I’m expecting goos and gas once the embargo is lifted and I think many people will cool the jets so to speak and get excited to get their GRY.
 
#30 ·

From this video a Tuned GR Yaris is probably just as quick as a 3.0 liter manual Supra, quite impressive
In this video they compare an automatic Supra, automatics are generally faster than manuals.
Yeah.... no. His Supra launches were awful, and he flew by the Yaris. His best was a 12.5 and a good quarter mile in a stock Supra is 11.9 to 12.1.
With a manual launch in 2nd gear the Supra would be in a different zip code.
 
#31 · (Edited)
I think that it's just really easy to experience a sort of burn out when being excited about something for this long. When I heard about the GR Yaris and how awesome it was, I was super excited and hopeful that maybe it would come to the US, and that sentiment just grew and grew over the past few years as rumors spread, leaks leaked, and Toyota started releasing sneaky teaser images. It all kinda climaxed when I tuned into the live reveal, was HYPED AF, joined this forum, and then realised that most of us wouldn't realistically be able to own or maybe even lay eyes upon one of these cars for another year. So personally I've kinda tried to avoid this forum and have tried to avoid thinking about the car at all. I'm scared that it will be a really good car, but still won't live up to the lofty pedestal I've placed it on.

In any case, worrying about it doesn't help anything. Tomorrow, we'll know a lot more about it, and hopefully there are opportunities to see it in person, sit in it, etc before purchasing.
 
#37 ·
The best you'll get is probably being able to test drive it if it's your deposit and you could possibly lose the deposit if you've gotten as far as having a Vin attached to it (if you don't want it after, I mean). I think a few people also mentioned their deposit was contingent on a test drive.
 
#38 ·
I had similar thoughts about a week after the reveal. I took a step back to think about things more broadly, and my enthusiasm cooled pretty quickly. We also have a Miata. And I have an all-original Evo X, which I'm certainly holding onto forever. So between those two and our other two cars, there's not really a place for in our fleet for a GRC unless it's significantly better than at least one of them in just about every way. Given what the GRC is and how it came about, I'm not so sure that's likely.

That said, I don't want to write it off before giving it a chance, so I'm still here, following all the news as it comes along. I'm happy to be proven wrong. Either way, it's an exciting journey.
 
#56 ·
Guys... it's finally happening to me. I think I'm forgetting why I should be excited about this car. When I first put myself on the list, I thought: "This car is the dream. It's just everything I've ever wanted." But now... I'm not so sure. Here's what I'm fixating on:
1. I like (love?) the driving feel of older Corollas (1983 - 2005 era) but I've driven a 2022 Corolla sedan and friends, let me say, it is not interesting at all. What if the GRC turns out to handle just like a Corolla? It's not like we can drive it before we sign the cheque...
2. Tail-happiness... is it a myth? In the summer I daily a Miata. It's not quick but it is a blast to slide around. I've seen lots online that suggests that the GRY doesn't have good drift dynamics and especially not in "sport" mode. That scares me... I have believed that the GR-four system was a the saviour of the front to rear AWD systems. But if putting 70% to the rear does nothing to make it "rear-wheel-drive-esque" then WHY am I committing to this 1.5 toasters clutch pack that most people are expecting to blow the heck up every 60 thousand k or so? Can't I just buy an old Matrix and get just as far? Or one of the billions of AWD crossovers out there?
3. Premium... I don't like spending money on gas. Nuff said.
4. What about the shifter!? What if it is more F-150 than CTR? Most manual transmissions I could live without. But I would NEVER, NEVER, NEVER (etc) NEVER want to swap my Miata transmission for an auto. Just no. But how do I know this car is nice to shift? People don't seem to get excited about the GRY gearbox. Why am I assuming that it's going to be a good (or great) gearbox? Am I a sheep?
5. Visibility. I can't get in a XSE and look around. Why? The dealers around here have like 3 cars on their lots and they are all SUVs. It's important to me that I don't feel like I'm driving a tank from out of a gunslit. There is no way to know what the driver's "awareness" of the corners of the vehicle is going to be. It could be like my 87' golf or it could be like a cargo van. Who knows?

I guess I just want it to be fun to drive but people keep saying "It's a corolla, I don't know why we are surprised to see that it's 80% understeer and 20% body roll. If you want fun get an 86."

So... tell me that it's going to be ok. Tell me these Toyota engineers understand what I (we) want and can deliver it.
You need to be more positive!
1. I love older Corollas too as I've owned 9 of them over the years. I currently own a 2009 Corolla S 5MT that I've turbocharged and a 2017 Corolla iM 6MT. I've done some upgrades to the suspension and chassis on both of them and they handle great. I believe that what has been done to the GRC will exceed what I've done to mine, so no worries on this point.
2. Don't car about this. I want it for carving canyon roads so I want it tight and to go where I point it with great grip. I can have till happy driving in my 1989 Supercharged MR2 5MT.
3. I don't worry about things I can't control. My 2009 Corolla Turbo and 1989 Supercharged MR2 both use 92 octane and I've survived so far. You gotta pay to play.
4. I'm not sure what you've been looking at but I heard everyone raving about the shifter feel in the GR Yaris. This is something I'm very excited about this since 95% or more of people have given great reviews of the shifter.
5. I've driven a 12th Gen Corolla HB and the visibility is just fine. It's very similar to my 2017 Corolla iM hatchback, nothing to worry about here. I drive a box truck for work using only side mirrors without issue so I wouldn't care either way. If you adjust your side mirrors properly you'll have no issues.
 
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