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Appreciate you homie! I think the conversation of what the Corolla actually is/was is one we've had a lot on this forum. Figured I'd make something that tracked the history all the way back, and shined some light on the various engineers who made the Corolla what it was.
Great content as always! I always enjoy these history videos.
 

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I think your generations are off in the '00s and '10s. It shows video of the 9th gen car when you were talking about the 10th gen cars and shows 10th gen cars when talking about 11th gen. The 10th gen cars did have an AZ powered version XRS, though it wasn't much to write home about and only lasted a couple model years. It looks like you skipped the 11th gen all together. The 10th and 11th gen were pretty forgettable, so I can see how that happens. IMO, even the standard 12th gen cars were a big jump over the 11th gen cars with the move to the TNGA type platforms. Independent rear suspension, engine and driver lower in the chassis, a nice 6MT, and an engine with more than 145hp with the M20. I don't think that Toyota could have built a GR off the 11th gen platform, but the building blocks are all there for the 12th gen to turn into a great sport compact.

Not sure why you cast doubt that the GR Corolla would be anything but a proper GR (in your mention of overweight, oversprung, etc). The Apex version of the 12th gen was a bolt on suspension and appearance package done as by the group that build accessories for US Toyota cars. It didn't go through the same OEM level development process that the GR cars do. There's literally no reason to think the two would be similar as far as overall result.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
. The Apex version of the 12th gen was a bolt on suspension and appearance package done as by the group that build accessories for US Toyota cars. It didn't go through the same OEM level development process that the GR cars do. There's literally no reason to think the two would be similar as far as overall result.
I mean they pretty much infer this. Lol.
 

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I think your generations are off in the '00s and '10s. It shows video of the 9th gen car when you were talking about the 10th gen cars and shows 10th gen cars when talking about 11th gen. The 10th gen cars did have an AZ powered version XRS, though it wasn't much to write home about and only lasted a couple model years. It looks like you skipped the 11th gen all together. The 10th and 11th gen were pretty forgettable, so I can see how that happens. IMO, even the standard 12th gen cars were a big jump over the 11th gen cars with the move to the TNGA type platforms. Independent rear suspension, engine and driver lower in the chassis, a nice 6MT, and an engine with more than 145hp with the M20. I don't think that Toyota could have built a GR off the 11th gen platform, but the building blocks are all there for the 12th gen to turn into a great sport compact.

Not sure why you cast doubt that the GR Corolla would be anything but a proper GR (in your mention of overweight, oversprung, etc). The Apex version of the 12th gen was a bolt on suspension and appearance package done as by the group that build accessories for US Toyota cars. It didn't go through the same OEM level development process that the GR cars do. There's literally no reason to think the two would be similar as far as overall result.
Yeah some of the clips are a little flipped around, that's my bad!

Oh, the fear of the GR Corolla having issues has little to do with the Apex edition. It is simply a fear of yet another car getting lost in translation, especially when it comes to North America.

I am largely optimistic that the car will be fine. But I have driven E210s on track, at Autocross, on the road, and they leave an enormous amount to be desired.

Add to that the fact that the GRC weighs an additional 100lbs over that the standard E210, and it presents a number of opportunities where Toyota could stumble with this car. The GR Yaris is fantastic, but weighing 2800 pounds is a significant factor in that car driving the way it does. The Corolla will be tasked with handling at the level of that Yaris, with little to no more suspension travel than a standard E210 (and using traditional dampers), which means they will be finding a delicate balance to get it right. Not to mention the fact that the rear coupling clutch packs are going to be working harder, with no additional cooling over the Yaris (which had demonstrated overheating).

None of this is groundbreaking, or enough to discount the GRC in any way. Just concerns as a potential owner and enjoyer of all cars. As I mentioned though, I am optimistic, especially having talked to Sakamoto-san, and the GR Engineers over the years.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Yeah some of the clips are a little flipped around, that's my bad!

Oh, the fear of the GR Corolla having issues has little to do with the Apex edition. It is simply a fear of yet another car getting lost in translation, especially when it comes to North America.

I am largely optimistic that the car will be fine. But I have driven E210s on track, at Autocross, on the road, and they leave an enormous amount to be desired.

Add to that the fact that the GRC weighs an additional 100lbs over that the standard E210, and it presents a number of opportunities where Toyota could stumble with this car. The GR Yaris is fantastic, but weighing 2800 pounds is a significant factor in that car driving the way it does. The Corolla will be tasked with handling at the level of that Yaris, with little to no more suspension travel than a standard E210 (and using traditional dampers), which means they will be finding a delicate balance to get it right. Not to mention the fact that the rear coupling clutch packs are going to be working harder, with no additional cooling over the Yaris (which had demonstrated overheating).

None of this is groundbreaking, or enough to discount the GRC in any way. Just concerns as a potential owner and enjoyer of all cars. As I mentioned though, I am optimistic, especially having talked to Sakamoto-san, and the GR Engineers over the years.
Maybe we can talk about this more offline but did Akio have a certain vision of the car? Sakamoto-san I’m sure wanted to make a fun product but I’m curious on the backstory.

On the website and through some certain people we know, I hear a lot of TE25 Corolla references and other generation cars.
 

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Maybe we can talk about this more offline but did Akio have a certain vision of the car? Sakamoto-san I’m sure wanted to make a fun product but I’m curious on the backstory.

On the website and through some certain people we know, I hear a lot of TE25 Corolla references and other generation cars.
So this is the story that I really want to look further into. But I will need to get my Japanese friend in a room with Sakamoto-san to really get the full scoop. Sakamoto-san's english is great but there's a lot of detail and nuance lost in English with the engineers I've interviewed over the years.

I learned the full story of the Supra and 86 through conversations with Tada-san's close friends, and facebook messaging Tada-san over the years through my Japanese friend. Informal conversations always bring the unadulterated truth.
 

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Add to that the fact that the GRC weighs an additional 100lbs over that the standard E210, and it presents a number of opportunities where Toyota could stumble with this car. The GR Yaris is fantastic, but weighing 2800 pounds is a significant factor in that car driving the way it does. The Corolla will be tasked with handling at the level of that Yaris, with little to no more suspension travel than a standard E210 (and using traditional dampers), which means they will be finding a delicate balance to get it right. Not to mention the fact that the rear coupling clutch packs are going to be working harder, with no additional cooling over the Yaris (which had demonstrated overheating).
Pretty much exactly what I'm thinking!
 

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Correct me if I’m wrong-but wasn’t it rumored that Toyoda took a final prototype of the GRC out around this time last year and essentially told them to go back to the drawing board in a few areas? I believe the GRC was originally planned for release in 2021 but was delayed because Akio, who as I’m sure you all know is still Toyota’s master driver, wasn’t fully satisfied with it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Correct me if I’m wrong-but wasn’t it rumored that Toyoda took a final prototype of the GRC out around this time last year and essentially told them to go back to the drawing board in a few areas? I believe the GRC was originally planned for release in 2021 but was delayed because Akio, who as I’m sure you all know is still Toyota’s master driver, wasn’t fully satisfied with it.
Actually it was shortages and things that pushed it back, per AutomotivePress.

The GR86 was pushed back because of what you described.
 

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I am largely optimistic that the car will be fine. But I have driven E210s on track, at Autocross, on the road, and they leave an enormous amount to be desired.

Add to that the fact that the GRC weighs an additional 100lbs over that the standard E210, and it presents a number of opportunities where Toyota could stumble with this car.
The Corolla hatch is an economy compact sedan just like the Yaris is. The mainline versions were never going to be track or auto-x stars out of the box because that was never the primary goal.

Drivers can vary by 100lbs. Throwing an instructor in the car changes the weight by over 100lbs. 100lbs is dross when it comes to putting a car’s suspension kinematics out of its performance envelop. There are a lot of ways they can hose this up, but a 100lb weight gain over the standard Corolla is not going to be root cause.

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The Corolla hatch is an economy compact sedan just like the Yaris is. The mainline versions were never going to be track or auto-x stars out of the box because that was never the primary goal.

Drivers can vary by 100lbs. Throwing an instructor in the car changes the weight by over 100lbs. 100lbs is dross when it comes to putting a car’s suspension kinematics out of its performance envelop. There are a lot of ways they can hose this up, but a 100lb weight gain over the standard Corolla is not going to be root cause.

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400lbs difference compared to the GRY is a much bigger deal though. That's like having 2 bigger or 3 smaller friends in the car at all times. Then add on top of that if you actually have friends in the car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
400lbs difference compared to the GRY is a much bigger deal though. That's like having 2 bigger or 3 smaller friends in the car at all times. Then add on top of that if you actually have friends in the car.
That’s what Guff was originally getting at, the weight won’t make it a bad car, but dynamically it should be different.
 

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400lbs difference compared to the GRY is a much bigger deal though. That's like having 2 bigger or 3 smaller friends in the car at all times. Then add on top of that if you actually have friends in the car.
And the GR Corolla is 200lbs lighter than the other AWD sport compacts (golf R, STI, Focus RS). The fact the GRC is heavier than the GR Yaris doesn’t mean that it is at high risk of being flubbed in the realm of AWD sport compacts. It was never going to be a GR Yaris because it isn’t a subcompact.


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