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Not everyone wants FWD though. Coming from RWD sports cars the CTR is too big a departure whereas the GRC I have some peace of mind that I can go 30/70 on canyons or 50/50 for track. It brings me back to when I lusted over the evo 8/9 and r32 gtr. Nothing FWD peaks my interest, nothing.

As for ride comfort we have 0 idea whether one will be more comfortable than the other. And without pulling up numbers I'm sure the corolla hatchback is very capable in the legroom/trunk space department. But if you're splitting hairs and saying one is more comfortable or has a few more cubic feet of space than the other, I'm not sure you'd be the core market for a CTR or GRC right?
The AWD is also why I'm going for this car over the civic for the same reasons you mentioned, but what I was saying was that the civic is just more capable in the majority of situations.

As for comfort, sure we can't tell yet, but what we do know is that the FK8 civic has fantastic ride quality in comfort mode, while the GR yaris has barely acceptable ride quality, and I think the GRC will be much closer to that than the regular corolla.

In terms of practicality, I don't have the numbers at the moment but the regular corolla hatch is already quite tight on rear leg and boot space before adding in AWD, while the civic is super roomy and best in class in that aspect.

I say all this but rear passenger and boot space really isn't a priority for me, I'm just mentioning it. Ride quality does somewhat matter to me though but not enough to counteract the FWD.
 

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My only issue with the CTR has always been the styling. No knowledgeable enthusiast would try to argue that it’s anything but an excellent car. That being said, I’m a professional in my early 30s who’s about to get married and have kids, and the styling of the last gen is just too much for me personally. Don’t get me wrong, I think it looks cool and I’ll give them some credit for going all out and not making it an anonymous greyscale blob, but the car looks like it’s fresh off the set of one of the Fast and Furious movies. If I was like 23 and single I’d be like “hell yeah brotherrrr” but I’m not haha…and the fiancée thinks they look ridiculous.

It’s also a car for true stat junkies and folks that are going to track it often. I’m not really either of those things…if a car laps (insert circuit here) .7 seconds quicker than another it doesn’t really matter to me. I care more about feel, although I’m sure the CTR feels great too.

Now that they’ve toned down the styling I’d be more than happy to give the new one a shot, but I don’t think the stars will align in the end. Honda dealerships are pretty infamous and were doing the ADM thing before it was common, so I don’t think anyone will be getting one at close to MSRP, whereas the Toyota dealership I’m near the top of the list for a GRC at is MSRP only. There are also a few things that sell the GRC for me over a CTR, including the AWD system (I currently daily a FWD car and get frustrated with its limits at times), the unique engine/backstory, and I’m sure I’ll get some flak for this…but the iMT technology as well.

I’m not a manual driver by trade (I can drive stick but I still have a lot to learn) and live in the city. The iMT system in the GRC is going to be a godsend in all the stop and go traffic I have to deal with and is going to make the adjustment from a DCT car much easier for me personally. As far as I know, the CTR doesn’t offer anything like it. I feel a lot better about making the transition to a stick car knowing Toyota has made it a little more idiot proof. And honestly…it’s a smart move on their part, because it makes the car more inviting for people that are still learning the ins and outs of a manual.

We’ll see. If the CTR turns out to be a viable alternative and I can’t get a GRC I’ll consider it, but with the way the stars seem to be aligning for me right now and I think the odds of that being the case are low. Like…very low. My chances of winding up with a GRC are halfway decent considering I’m 4th on the list at a local MSRP only dealership in a heavily populated area. I think CTRs are going to be just as hard to get and even harder to get at MSRP, so I don’t see myself just being able to slide into a CTR as a plan B and I don’t feel like calling around a bunch and getting on lists again as a backup plan. My free time is really limited and I’d rather not spend any more of it than I have to interacting with car dealerships…

Plan B is probably going to remain a certified Bimmer for me…or even a used Golf R. There are consistently decent examples around me in the 35-40 range.
CTR has rev matching by down shifts as well.

I get it though!
 

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Kinda wish the modern CTR has some handling characteristics that's more like the older models like the DC2 ITR and FD2 CTR, sharp, edgy and quite willing to lift off oversteer. Just my opinion but I feel like Honda has become a bit too obsessed with Nurburgring lap times with their Type R model, for the most part the CTR's handling is either grip hard or have slight understeer when pushing it to the limit.
 

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I can add some useful information to the discussion here (I think). First, my qualifications: I'm a pro instructor for over 20 yrs (certified for Porsche, BMW, Lotus, Ferrari, NASA, Chin, HOD, and others that I'm probably forgetting). I hold race licenses with SCCA and NASA and VRG. I drive my cars (vintage Lotus Super Seven with VRG, my fully built EG with NASA and PHA, and other teams cars (currently an EVSR Prototype running with the SCCA). anyhoo - my daily driver since '18 is a new CTR. bone stock everything except I have swapped out the OEM Brembo Pads for less aggressive (read way less dusty) pads, and I've removed the OEM 20" wheels and tires and installed a set of 18" Rays wheels and Indy 500 tires (265-35-18 up front, 255-40 in rear). thats it. otherwise totally stock even the alignment is stock (I haven't even removed the camber pins). this car is the best (i'm telling you, the BEST) road car I've ever owned. it drives AMAZINGLY well. the suspension is so compliant with it's three different modes, that there is always the proper setting available depending on what the roads are like (I live in the northeast where our roads are all broken up and suck after winter). with the slightly wider front tires on it, it handles very neutrally (pretty much no understeer, unless you are driving like a moron and cranking the wheel over hard and flooring it, which you shouldnt do anyway). the brakes are incredible even with the less aggressive pads. the steering is super direct and communicative (not as good as my Lotus Super Seven racecar, but it is GREAT). the power (remember mine is totally stock) is fantastic. the motor is FANTASTIC. it pulls strong from 3k on up and at 4500 on up it PULLLLLLS all the way to the rev limiter. never falls off. and the transmission/shifter ------- this is the best of any car I've ever driven. (this is better than the NA Miata I owned. way way better than my 2003 Boxster S. and on and on). it is a joy to drive. the ratios are perfect! it is purrrrfect to shift. and it is SUPER comfy - the seats, even though very sporty are EXTREMELY comfy. you can drive this for hours on Comfort mode and take long trips and it is awesome. there is a large amount of room for the front passengers and even a good amount of room for the rear people. and the hatch is large for luggage etc. even the mileage is pretty good (I average around 27-28 during my daily driving around on rural back roads mostly with a little city and a little highway. on pure highway trips it gets a solid 33 mpg. i'd say my only real complaint would be the radio/nav/temp controls and operation. they aren't that great; they work fine but just so-so. this is my daily, but I have taken it to NJMP one time during a private coaching day and I ran it around for about 15 laps. it surprised me how good it was on track (+R mode). of course it wasn't as good as my pure track racecars, but it was fun to drive and was pretty fast (I was easily keeping up with an E36 M3 with suspension work and Hoosier tires!). mine never overheated either (some have issues with overheating on track but I never did). Ok so that's my backround on the CTR that I've owned for almost 4 yrs. I plan on NEVER selling it. ever. it's a forever keeper. in comparison, before the CTR, I bought new a 2003 EVO VIII. great car! it needed a little help to make it better, so I did the sports alignment on it (flip the knuckle bolts). a 3" downpipe and cat delete and muffler delete. HKS 264 cams and a reflash. ran fantastic after all that; made about 310 at the wheels (it was a mild reflash). why am I mentioning the EVO? because even with all those little mods, it did NOTHING as well as my CTR does, except a drag race. with the AWD, it was a monster from 0-60. but that was it. the CTR is better in EVERY way, and was faster and easier around a track. i'm being serious, the CTR is that good. i loved the EVO VIII, but it couldn't hold a candle to the CTR.

I really really really am hoping that the GRC CE (that's what I'm on the list for) will be able to actually top the driving feeling of the CTR. to be honest, I am betting that it won't quite match the precision and ability that the CTR has. the FK8 CTR is that good. but I feel that the Toyota might be able to come close or even bring something different to the game, so I had to (attempt anyway) to buy one!

Anyone who wishes to ask me any questions please feel free to do so. i'm a car guy/nut, so I'm glad to answer to the best of my ability! :)

Todd

PS I own some other fast / cool cars. I guess the fastest most bad ass would be my '20 ZL1 1LE 6sp Camaro. that car is insane. truly. but is is a terrible road car (it beats you up and the full race DSSV suspension is insane for street use here in the northeast. plus the engine is so powerful that you can barely roll on it for more than a few seconds and you are going warp speed). it's bad ass and incredible feat of engineering (and it is a total track weapon monster!). but it's not a good road car. the CTR is way way way more fun and engaging on the roads around here, and it's rare that I ever get in the ZLE to just drive it on a nice day.

Kinda wish the modern CTR has some handling characteristics that's more like the older models like the DC2 ITR and FD2 CTR, sharp, edgy and quite willing to lift off oversteer. Just my opinion but I feel like Honda has become a bit too obsessed with Nurburgring lap times with their Type R model, for the most part the CTR's handling is either grip hard or have slight understeer when pushing it to the limit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #67 ·
I can add some useful information to the discussion here (I think). First, my qualifications: I'm a pro instructor for over 20 yrs (certified for Porsche, BMW, Lotus, Ferrari, NASA, Chin, HOD, and others that I'm probably forgetting). I hold race licenses with SCCA and NASA and VRG. I drive my cars (vintage Lotus Super Seven with VRG, my fully built EG with NASA and PHA, and other teams cars (currently an EVSR Prototype running with the SCCA). anyhoo - my daily driver since '18 is a new CTR. bone stock everything except I have swapped out the OEM Brembo Pads for less aggressive (read way less dusty) pads, and I've removed the OEM 20" wheels and tires and installed a set of 18" Rays wheels and Indy 500 tires (265-35-18 up front, 255-40 in rear). thats it. otherwise totally stock even the alignment is stock (I haven't even removed the camber pins). this car is the best (i'm telling you, the BEST) road car I've ever owned. it drives AMAZINGLY well. the suspension is so compliant with it's three different modes, that there is always the proper setting available depending on what the roads are like (I live in the northeast where our roads are all broken up and suck after winter). with the slightly wider front tires on it, it handles very neutrally (pretty much no understeer, unless you are driving like a moron and cranking the wheel over hard and flooring it, which you shouldnt do anyway). the brakes are incredible even with the less aggressive pads. the steering is super direct and communicative (not as good as my Lotus Super Seven racecar, but it is GREAT). the power (remember mine is totally stock) is fantastic. the motor is FANTASTIC. it pulls strong from 3k on up and at 4500 on up it PULLLLLLS all the way to the rev limiter. never falls off. and the transmission/shifter ------- this is the best of any car I've ever driven. (this is better than the NA Miata I owned. way way better than my 2003 Boxster S. and on and on). it is a joy to drive. the ratios are perfect! it is purrrrfect to shift. and it is SUPER comfy - the seats, even though very sporty are EXTREMELY comfy. you can drive this for hours on Comfort mode and take long trips and it is awesome. there is a large amount of room for the front passengers and even a good amount of room for the rear people. and the hatch is large for luggage etc. even the mileage is pretty good (I average around 27-28 during my daily driving around on rural back roads mostly with a little city and a little highway. on pure highway trips it gets a solid 33 mpg. i'd say my only real complaint would be the radio/nav/temp controls and operation. they aren't that great; they work fine but just so-so. this is my daily, but I have taken it to NJMP one time during a private coaching day and I ran it around for about 15 laps. it surprised me how good it was on track (+R mode). of course it wasn't as good as my pure track racecars, but it was fun to drive and was pretty fast (I was easily keeping up with an E36 M3 with suspension work and Hoosier tires!). mine never overheated either (some have issues with overheating on track but I never did). Ok so that's my backround on the CTR that I've owned for almost 4 yrs. I plan on NEVER selling it. ever. it's a forever keeper. in comparison, before the CTR, I bought new a 2003 EVO VIII. great car! it needed a little help to make it better, so I did the sports alignment on it (flip the knuckle bolts). a 3" downpipe and cat delete and muffler delete. HKS 264 cams and a reflash. ran fantastic after all that; made about 310 at the wheels (it was a mild reflash). why am I mentioning the EVO? because even with all those little mods, it did NOTHING as well as my CTR does, except a drag race. with the AWD, it was a monster from 0-60. but that was it. the CTR is better in EVERY way, and was faster and easier around a track. i'm being serious, the CTR is that good. i loved the EVO VIII, but it couldn't hold a candle to the CTR.

I really really really am hoping that the GRC CE (that's what I'm on the list for) will be able to actually top the driving feeling of the CTR. to be honest, I am betting that it won't quite match the precision and ability that the CTR has. the FK8 CTR is that good. but I feel that the Toyota might be able to come close or even bring something different to the game, so I had to (attempt anyway) to buy one!

Anyone who wishes to ask me any questions please feel free to do so. i'm a car guy/nut, so I'm glad to answer to the best of my ability! :)

Todd

PS I own some other fast / cool cars. I guess the fastest most bad ass would be my '20 ZL1 1LE 6sp Camaro. that car is insane. truly. but is is a terrible road car (it beats you up and the full race DSSV suspension is insane for street use here in the northeast. plus the engine is so powerful that you can barely roll on it for more than a few seconds and you are going warp speed). it's bad ass and incredible feat of engineering (and it is a total track weapon monster!). but it's not a good road car. the CTR is way way way more fun and engaging on the roads around here, and it's rare that I ever get in the ZLE to just drive it on a nice day.
We appreciate your write up! The only question I have is what do you expect from the newest CTR coming out? Reveal is supposedly next month!
 

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Well, thanks! Here’s my guesses as to the new CTR:
1. It’ll be a bit more power. I’d guess about 320 Hp or so.
2. The suspension calibration and response and handling will be even better than the FK8 is.
3. The infotainment will be much better.
4. It’ll be faster around the Ring by a couple seconds.
5. I think it’ll be slightly larger and very slightly heavier.
6. I think it’ll be priced around $41-42k. There will be big ADMs though.
7. now for my personal impressions —- I think it’ll be more generic looking and more bland. That’s too bad, cause I think the front view of the FK8 is very pleasing (aggressive!). I like the side view of mine too. The rear view is the worst angle of the FK8, but it’s grown on me. I think the new car isn’t going to have as much soul and presence as the outgoing FK8. But again, this is just my opinion !
 

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versus that’s my ‘20 Camaro ZL1 1LE 6sp manual in Rally Green Metallic. Very very rare color. I think it just looks bad ass mean!
But as I mentioned, the CTR is a way better road car to drive. You’ve gotta want to feel like a gangster that day, if you plan to take the ZLE out. Lol.
 

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versus that’s my ‘20 Camaro ZL1 1LE 6sp manual in Rally Green Metallic. Very very rare color. I think it just looks bad ass mean!
But as I mentioned, the CTR is a way better road car to drive. You’ve gotta want to feel like a gangster that day, if you plan to take the ZLE out. Lol.
If I had the funds to have a second car to myself that was solely for fun/track use I think a manual V8 Camaro would be high on my list. That platform is amazing and the combination of an LS and a 6 speed Tremec is tough to beat. I’ve driven a current gen V6 before and have poked around at LT1s (IMHO probably the best performance per dollar car on the market currently)….but I could never live with one as a daily due to the horrid gas mileage, useless back seats, and the fact that it’s like trying to see out of a tank lol.

…but as a pure fun car to take out on nice days? I’d love one. I hate it when folks write it off as a muscle car. They’ve become so, so much more than that. In fact, I have an SS drop top as my honeymoon rental in July. Can’t wait to hoon the ever living crap out of it….as the golden rule is “don’t be gentle it’s a rental” 😉
 

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My friend who’s a die hard Honda guy was saying it had to be broken for them to do one last teaser at the Ring.
That's pretty impressive... Should be revealed here pretty soon, suppose to be this month sometime and then the first week of July in the USA.
Depending on how it looks and performs, I will strongly consider one if I can't get a CE. Have a few choices as back up plans...
 

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Discussion Starter · #77 ·
That's pretty impressive... Should be revealed here pretty soon, suppose to be this month sometime and then the first week of July in the USA.
Depending on how it looks and performs, I will strongly consider one if I can't get a CE. Have a few choices as back up plans...
Nothing wrong with that, at the end of the day we all just love cars. Lol
 

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Supposedly a pretty accurate rendering of the new CTR... I don't like it at all... The only thing I like about it when compared to the outgoing CTR is the spoiler and flared rear QP versus "tacked on" rear flares.
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Discussion Starter · #79 ·
Supposedly a pretty accurate rendering of the new CTR... I don't like it at all... The only thing I like about it when compared to the outgoing CTR is the spoiler and flared rear QP versus "tacked on" rear flares.
View attachment 2472
View attachment 2471
I like that it looks more mature, it’s nice all the Honda guys get a crazy Type R before the Civic platform changes
 
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